Use of discounts/fraud

[railforum123]

Hi,

I regularly travel with a train company who offer a £5 discount to customers when they download their app and make a new account. I've made a number of email addresses to get this discount, but the company has asked that I pay back a large sum of money (refunding the discounts I've received, as well as covering a substantial amount of 'admin' fees).

I realise this is a breach of their terms and conditions, but they're saying that this could amount to a criminal offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Is this right, and do I have an obligation to pay the sum of money they're asking for? From my initial research, it looks as though these types of cases, whilst breaching T&C's are not actually illegal.

Their T&Cs are as follows:

1. LNER PERKS members will receive a ‘joining credit’ of £5 when joining LNER PERKS for the first time. If an individual customer leaves and then re-joins LNER PERKS they will not receive additional joining credit.
2. The LNER PERKS joining credit can only be added to an LNER customer account. It cannot be donated to charity.
3. We reserve the right to increase or reduce the amount of credit earned when joining LNER PERKS, including removing it entirely, at any time.
4. LNER reserves the right to: (a) withdraw at any time any LNER PERKS joining credit that was granted in the case of any fraudulent activity or in error; (b) withhold or delay issuing LNER PERKS joining credit; or (c) change these terms at any time

Thank you for your help.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd probably say that obfuscating so as to breach T&Cs in order to gain financially is fraud, yes.

Fraud is "gaining pecuniary advantage by deception".

Let's see.

You gained a load of £5 joining credits. This is pecuniary advantage, i.e. money.

You lied in order to do so, by registering multiple accounts, presumably in false names/postal addresses but certainly in multiple emails? This is deception.

Thus, yes, you've committed fraud. I'm not even sure that term would need to exist for this to be fraud, because it's pretty obvious you're only intended to have one account per person, or perhaps at most two if you had a separate business one.

Do you have to pay the settlement? No. But if you don't, they will probably seek a private fraud prosecution against you, and fraud is one thing you don't want on your record - it'll mean you'll have trouble getting a job and will basically never be able to borrow money again, nor even get a bank account in many cases. In many cases a fraud charge against you would, the potential prison sentence aside, be more of an issue long-term than a murder charge, because it states loud and clear "this person cannot be trusted, don't do business with them".

 

[island]

The terms and conditions make it clear that the joining credit is per customer, not per email address, and that if an individual customer leaves and then rejoins, they would not be entitled to new credit.

It seems to me that you made a representation on a number of occasions that you were in fact a new customer, which you knew not to be true, in an endeavour to make a gain for yourself.

This constitutes fraud by false representation contrary to section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006, punishable by up to ten years in prison.

You would be wise to pay up.

 

[methecooldude]

In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. You pretended to be a new user on many occasions in order to unfairly gain the £5 credit. So yes, you have committed fraud and hence an offence under the Fraud Act

 

[Jamiescott1]

Out of interest how did they find out and how was this communicated to you (i.e was it to the real you or to one of your aliases).

 

[Adlington]

The T&Cs as quoted by the OP don't say "only one account per person"....

 

[Bletchleyite]

The T&Cs as quoted by the OP don't say "only one account per person"....

LNER PERKS members will receive a ‘joining credit’ of £5 when joining LNER PERKS for the first time. If an individual customer leaves and then re-joins LNER PERKS they will not receive additional joining credit.

That certainly says only one joining credit. If one had justification for multiple accounts (e.g. if wanting a separate business account) then one could presumably have corresponded with LNER giving that justification and asking that the joining credit be removed from the extra ones.

 

[skyhigh]

The T&Cs as quoted by the OP don't say "only one account per person"....

They have helpfully omitted the condition that says that from their quote.

9. Each customer is permitted to have one membership of LNER PERKS and we reserve the right to remove membership and/or any associated benefits of the scheme from a customer account where we believe the same individual has multiple memberships. We reserve the right to refuse, merge or close additional accounts at any time.

LNER Perks Terms and Conditions

www.lner.co.uk

 

[methecooldude]

The T&Cs as quoted by the OP don't say "only one account per person"....

Not the ones the OP quotes, but https://www.lner.co.uk/tickets-savings/perks/perks-terms-and-conditions/

1. Each customer is permitted to have one membership of LNER PERKS and we reserve the right to remove membership and/or any associated benefits of the scheme from a customer account where we believe the same individual has multiple memberships. We reserve the right to refuse, merge or close additional accounts at any time.

 

[Adlington]

Selective quoting

 

[furlong]

On the other hand, the standard of proof required for fraud is high, and if the contract provides for a remedy that covers the specific circumstances, that might make it difficult to take action outside the parameters set out.

However, you say "a number" and "large sum"? Roughly how many accounts and how large a sum is involved? Are other people involved?

Your underlying questions:

1) Am I entitled to keep this money?
Needs a lot more details to answer this. For example, did you always register with your own name and address (identically) each time or did you use other people's data or made up data?
If you're trying to exploit a "loophole" you can't afford to get a single thing wrong or it's no longer a loophole! (If you failed to provide your own correct data every time, then you've probably fallen at the first hurdle.)

2) What options do they have that force me to repay it? Is prosecution an option? Are requested admin fees enforceable?
That'll depend on detailed circumstances you haven't told us, and the extent to which they can point out breaches of their conditions or of the law.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just pay the money and admit you lost the game you were playing.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is this right, and do I have an obligation to pay the sum of money they're asking for?

To some extent we're looking at this from the wrong end.

Can LNER compel you somehow to repay this? My feeling is that unless they can make out that you and they had a contract and you were in breach of it, then no, they probably can't.

But...

You need to consider the real world alternative if you don't come to an agreement with them. As a number of people have said here, what you seem to have done seems to meet the statutory definition of fraud. And it's open for a private organisation (such as the railway) to bring a prosecution for fraud. And fraud is an offence that people do go to prison for.

So if you don't voluntarily come to an agreement with the railway (i.e. pay them the amount they're asking for) you are liable to end up in court and risking a prison sentence.

So strictly, the railway cannot force you to pay money back - but you risk very serious consequences if you don't.

This is the same end result, but a slightly different route to get to it: you would be well advised to pay what it takes to get the railway off your back.

 

[skyhigh]

Can LNER compel you somehow to repay this? My feeling is that unless they can make out that you and they had a contract and you were in breach of it, then no, they probably can't.

I would take a different view on this - to sign up you have to agree to the terms and conditions that specifically prohibit this behaviour. I think it's reasonable to suggest that by creating a number of duplicate accounts the OP has broken the contract they entered into with LNER by accepting to be bound by the T&Cs. As I understand it that would limit their recourse to civil recovery methods though, unless they have enough evidence to go forward with a criminal Fraud prosecution.

 

[rs101]

I would take a different view on this - to sign up you have to agree to the terms and conditions that specifically prohibit this behaviour. I think it's reasonable to suggest that by creating a number of duplicate accounts the OP has broken the contract they entered into with LNER by accepting to be bound by the T&Cs. As I understand it that would limit their recourse to civil recovery methods though, unless they have enough evidence to go forward with a criminal Fraud prosecution.

I guess the question is, did the OP close each Perks account before opening the next one? If so, then they haven't breached the T&C as they only say a customer can only have one membership.

 

[skyhigh]

I guess the question is, did the OP close each Perks account before opening the next one? If so, then they haven't breached the T&C as they only say a customer can only have one membership.

They also say each customer is only allowed one credit, and customers who leave and re-join are not entitled to another credit. So I don't think there's any mileage in that from a contractual view point.

 

[spag23]

If an individual customer leaves and then re-joins LNER PERKS they will not receive additional joining credit.

If so, then they haven't breached the T&C as they only say a customer can only have one membership.

But the OP was claiming, and receiving, the additional joining credit.

 

[Deafdoggie]

We need a lot more detail from the OP. I've had offers for things where I've joined, my wife has joined, the kids have joined and my mum has joined. It depends on the T&Cs in each offer. Some say one per address, some one per person, some one per email.
Whilst the T&Cs for this offer do explicitly say one per person, if the OP used other friends/family for the accounts then, technically it's their account, even if the OP gains the benefit as they don't want it.
However, given LNER have discovered this, i think we're beyond a few. We're probably well into the territory of fraud. I'm sure they wouldn't go to this trouble if the OP 'merely' had half a dozen accounts.

 

[kacper]

I have seen this before from LNER, you're best off paying it and they won't take it further

 

[wellhouse]

The T&Cs as quoted by the OP don't say "only one account per person"....

It is not clear there is any limit to the number of LNER accounts any individual can have.

It is clear, however, that an individual is limited to just one joining credit.

 

[skyhigh]

It is not clear there is any limit to the number of LNER accounts any individual can have.

Please read the thread. It is clearly stated in the T&Cs (as I quoted in post 8).

 

[wellhouse]

Please read the thread. It is clearly stated in the T&Cs (as I quoted in post 8).

Yes there is a limit to one LNER Perks account through the LNER App, but it is also possible to set up an account through the desktop site where Perks do not apply, and whose T&C's make no reference to Perks

 

[island]

Yes there is a limit to one LNER Perks account through the LNER App, but it is also possible to set up an account through the desktop site where Perks do not apply, and whose T&C's make no reference to Perks

Even if this were a meritorious argument, which is doubtful, it would still only excuse 2 accounts, rather than the many more that the OP is accused of creating.

 

[Kenny G]

Fraud is "gaining pecuniary advantage by deception".

No it isn't. The definition was changed with the introduction of the Fraud Act 2006.

One of the primary elements for the offence is the use of a dishonest false representation. I am not sure using multiple email accounts is a false representation. However, if they have ticked a box saying they accept the terms and conditions which prohibit multiple aliases and then not followed them the tick may be a false representation.

The dishonesty element is a low bar nowadays and in this case quite easy to prove. I would challenge any excessive admin fees and agree to pay money gained.

 

[jumble]

Something different to what we have seen before here

A Freedom of Information request reveals abuse of LNER Perks

A response to a Freedom of Information Act request from Government-run LNER trains has exposed abuse of the sign-up deal for its LNER Perks loyalty scheme.

www.headforpoints.com

In late 2023, someone asked LNER about abuse of its loyalty scheme.

You can read the full response here. In summary:

• LNER has “identified 85 cases involving individuals who have created multiple accounts under the LNER Perks scheme”
• 4,100 accounts have been flagged as duplicates – this is believed to be a major underestimate but the resources are not available for a more detailed examination of the membership base
• no-one has yet been prosecuted for having multiple accounts, but
• “LNER has recovered the correct fares that were initially evaded” with administration fees charged on top
• £20,500 has been recovered to date

If you thought that schemes simply sat back whilst small scale fraud took place, you are wrong...

 

[Deafdoggie]

4,100 duplicate accounts from 85 people. This isn't people simply having two accounts.

 

[Haywain]

4,100 duplicate accounts from 85 people. This isn't people simply having two accounts.

It doesn't say that the 85 people had registered 4100 accounts.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's quite the recovery from LNER.

People are not very bright; this sort of scheme-rinsing has fallen out of favour in the last 5-10 years as companies have got wise to what basically amounts to fraud committed against them. I am surprised to read dozens of people were still attempting this sort of thing in 2023.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder how much of that money was received from @railforum123, who is clearly one of the 85?

 

[Thebaz]

Well this is interesting... Don't people do this sort of thing all the time with online grocery deliveries, meal deliveries and the like? I've never heard of Ocado pursuing anyone for having accounts on multiple email addresses. Personally I couldn't be bothered with the administration it would require to keep on top of it all but I guess some people are quite happy to do that.