Use of first class by pushchairs

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158801

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Recently I've witnessed a growing trend to put people with pushchairs in first class.

This is especially apparent on Hitachi 80x units where the only space big enough to put an unfolded buggy / pram / pushchair is in the wheelchair users space 1st class.

These people only hold std class tickets.

On one hand this can be seen as delivering excellent customer service - allowing (more often than not mums) to sit with their child and have a bit of space.

However, the cynic in me says that this is starting a bad precedent
  • people who do have 1st class tickets have the value of their ticket undermined by standard ticket holders sitting in 1st class
  • the space could be required for a wheelchair users part way along the journey. This will cause hassle for the parent having to move
  • what happens when you get 3, 4, 5 or more pushchairs.

What are your thoughts? .
 
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Horizon22

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You should speak to the Train Manager. Wheelchairs passenger are obviously allowed in this space with a standard ticket as it's the only area on an 80x unit. It's not necessarily good customer service if it's annoying other passengers and, as you say, might cause an issue if they have to move because its a wheelchair accessible space. The issue could be avoided in the first place by them not being there and ultimately if needed, they should fold up their pushchair.
 
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londonteacher

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This is especially apparent on Hitachi 80x units where the only space big enough to put an unfolded buggy / pram / pushchair is in the wheelchair users space 1st class.
So a design flaw? If it became too much of an issue I'm sure something could be changed.
people who do have 1st class tickets have the value of their ticket undermined by standard ticket holders sitting in 1st class
The train manager did something nice to help out someone by the sounds of it. As has been previously said, trains are quieter so they can help out. I'm pretty sure if there was complimentary catering (has it started again?) they wouldn't get it so the only thing demarking first class is a different seat.
the space could be required for a wheelchair users part way along the journey. This will cause hassle for the parent having to move
Then, like on all transport the wheelchair gets priority.
what happens when you get 3, 4, 5 or more pushchairs.
Unlikely, an unless the 'upgrade' is announced loudly and broadcast to all who would know to question anything?
 

Fyldeboy

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Whilst I understand the 'they shouldn't be there' argument - after all, bawling babies will affect First Class Ambience, I do think it's not unreasonable for (lets assume) mum to want baby to be in pram if its a long journey.

Maybe it is a design issue? One disabled space on a 5 car set might comply with 'the rules' but is paltry. Maybe if the aisle seat on the 1st or last row of seats in a coach were fold up design, baby could go there, with mum in the window (well actually wall!) seat.
 

py_megapixel

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I appreciate that the parent's position here is a little difficult if they need to get that train and there is nowhere to put the pushchair, but if I had paid for first class on that service I wouldn't want there to be a baby there making noise. The obvious solution to me would be for the pushchair to be folded and stowed and then the passengers to sit in Standard; however I appreciate that very young babies would have difficulty sitting in a seat.

The underlying problem here is that, presumably in a desire to cram in more seats, the DfT have not specified a sufficient amount of spaces for these things. Complaining that the IET spec is poor is of course rather cliched on this forum, but the point still stands...
 

londonteacher

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Whilst I understand the 'they shouldn't be there' argument - after all, bawling babies will affect First Class Ambience,
if I had paid for first class on that service I wouldn't want there to be a baby there making noise
In this instance I agree with you because of the free upgrade to first.

But, you couldn't complain if the the parent had paid for first class and the baby was making noise as they would have every right to be there.

A side note, are there quiet carriages in First Class?
 

py_megapixel

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But, you couldn't complain if the the parent had paid for first class and the baby was making noise as they would have every right to be there.
In general, no, assuming the noise was not too loud - but I believe that everyone has some degree of duty to avoid creating too much noise. It is public transport after all; respecting other members of the public's desire for a quiet and pleasant journey is important. As such, if the baby started to be disruptively loud I think it would be perfectly acceptable for a member of staff to ask them child to relocate until the child had calmed down (for example standing in the vestibule for a few minutes).

A side note, are there quiet carriages in First Class?
I don't believe anywhere in the UK has first class quiet carriages, but as I said above, I don't think non-quiet carriages should be interpreted as 'loud carriages', regardless of whether the passenger in question has a ticket to be there.
 

DarloRich

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We cant have the oiks and their sprogs upsetting the good people of first clarse can we? Goodness me. Someone tries to do a kind turn to help others and people moan. What a selfish world we live in.

BTW - are fine upstanding first class family noisy babes acceptable in first class? Would they be allowed to upset the "first class ambiance"?
 
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py_megapixel

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We cant have the oiks and their sprogs upsetting the good people of first clarse can we? Goodness me. Someone tries to do something to help others. What a selfish world we live in.
One where people who pay a lot of money for a nicer travel experience don't want it ruined by someone's screeching child?

I have no objection to babies being on the train - I just think if they are making a lot of noise then parents should take steps to reduce the disruption caused to other passengers, such as by taking the baby somewhere else until they calm down. FWIW I think the same applies to standard class.

BTW - are fine upstanding first class family noisy babes acceptable in first class?
We're talking about classes of travel, which are not the same thing as social classes :rolleyes:
 

DarloRich

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One where people who pay a lot of money for a nicer travel experience don't want it ruined by someone's screeching child?
Easier just to write: yes

( BTW - do you have any children?)


I have no objection to babies being on the train - I just think if they are making a lot of noise then parents should take steps to reduce the disruption caused to other passengers, such as by taking the baby somewhere else until they calm down. FWIW I think the same applies to standard class.
On the train but not near me. Got you. If they are "screeching" they should do so with the poor people. They wont mind.

Could i also just check: If I pay "a lot of money for a nicer travel experience" for me and my family but the small one "screeches" during that journey your view is that I should stand somewhere else for the journey.

We're talking about classes of travel, which are not the same thing as social classes

Could have fooled me.
 
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Horizon22

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This might also be a time-limited thing. With 1st class numbers so low due to Covid, perhaps the TM is happy to allow this whilst with higher passengers number and more "normality", they may not.
 

Scotrail314209

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One where people who pay a lot of money for a nicer travel experience don't want it ruined by someone's screeching child?

I have no objection to babies being on the train - I just think if they are making a lot of noise then parents should take steps to reduce the disruption caused to other passengers, such as by taking the baby somewhere else until they calm down. FWIW I think the same applies to standard class.
Totally agreed. If I pay the premium for First Class then I at least deserve peace and quiet, it’s why I paid to not sit in busy Standard.

Anything worse than a baby would be a mother with some loud kids and a baby, with the kids running loose.
 

DarloRich

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If I pay the premium for First Class then I at least deserve peace and quiet, it’s why I paid to not sit in busy Standard.

If i pay for first class and my baby makes noise you find unacceptable should i be thrown out? After-all, I wouldn't want to disturb your peace and quiet.
 

ainsworth74

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I'm not sure there's anything sensible to be gained here. We've done this discussion to death before.
 
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