Use of Green Flags

[winks]

Noticed at Haywards Heath the platform staff use green flags to dispatch , what’s the purpose of this given most other stations I’ve not seen this happen?

Thanks

 

[DavyCrocket]

Because there are no ‘Close Doors’ CD and ‘Right Away’ RA displays?

 

[Surreytraveller]

A green flag is in lieu of a green signal in absolute block areas, or as a Right Away if RA or bells aren't working

A green flag is in lieu of a green signal in absolute block areas, or as a Right Away if RA or bells aren't working

When handsignalling in colour light areas, you give a yellow flag as you don't know whether the next signal is red or not

 

[Lucy1501]

A green flag is in lieu of a green signal in absolute block areas

Green flags are only ever used to enable drivers to pass over a level crossing in handsignalling. Yellow flags are used in all other circumstances.

To quote from the RSSB's "Signals, Handsignals, Indicators and Signs":

• A red flag during daylight or a red light during darkness or poor visibility means ‘STOP’.
• A yellow flag during daylight or a yellow light during darkness or poor visibility is used when giving authority to pass a signal at danger.
• A green flag during daylight or a green light during darkness or poor visibility is used to give authority to pass over a level crossing.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Despatch at certain stations - St Albans for example - used to be a furled green flag (or light) for close doors) , followed by an opened green flag to confirm OK to depart as doors etc closed and interlocked.

Replaced by CD and RA indicators. Used to quite enjoy the traditional sight.

 

[king_walnut]

At Haywards Heath the method of dispatch is bat and flag.

The member of staff will show a white bat to the driver to indicate that it is safe to shut the doors. He/She will then show a green flag to signal that it is safe to move away.

That's during the day anyway. During darkness, the platform staff will use white and green lights on their bats to fulfil the same protocol.

 

[ComUtoR]

Green flags are only ever used to enable drivers to pass over a level crossing in handsignalling. Yellow flags are used in all other circumstances.

To quote from the RSSB's "Signals, Handsignals, Indicators and Signs":

• A red flag during daylight or a red light during darkness or poor visibility means ‘STOP’.
• A yellow flag during daylight or a yellow light during darkness or poor visibility is used when giving authority to pass a signal at danger.
• A green flag during daylight or a green light during darkness or poor visibility is used to give authority to pass over a level crossing.

What about a green flag placed in the 4ft at a set of points ?

 

[LRV3004]

Conductors/Train Managers also use green flags at stations where the station staff give the "RA" signal to the driver. The Conductor/Train Manager waves the green flag, closes their local door and waits for the station staff to operate the "RA" indicator as opposed to giving "two on the buzzer".

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What about a green flag placed in the 4ft at a set of points ?

According to my old rule book training (I started in 1979) , that would indicate the points are secured - (clipped and scotched) , in most cases for single line , or degraded working. should be a handsignalman - but it one not available then a flag / lamp left would be left but needed to be checked from time to time.

 

[Gloster]

Green flags were used by a signalman to indicate to a driver that he could proceed after having been stopped by a red flag at a signal box for some reason. Check the train by fixed signals, hold red flag out of the box window or in front of you if you were already at track level, give the message, show a green to indicate to the driver that he could go.

 

[Boilinthebag]

Flags and the rule book.....trying to keep it as simple as possible....

Green handsignal...CCTV/RC/OD/AHBC under local control. At unworked points to show that they are secured and safe for train to pass.

Yellow only at a red signal or handsignaller to authorise train to proceed. Red at handsignaller or in an emergency at any time.

 

[4069]

Current rule book Module SS1 section 3.4

Guard: If there is no bell or buzzer communication, you must give the 'ready-to-start' signal to the driver by displaying a green handsignal

 

[Ashley Hill]

Other/previous uses of green flags are:-
•Green flag waved by signalman to driver indicating that their train is divided.
•Green flag held steady by signalman to indicate to driver that the line is clear only as far as the next boxes home signal.
•Held steadily by track worker to indicate the end of an EROS where warning boards have not yet been provided.

 

[winks]

Why can’t RA indicators be fitted or is it the case that green flag use is to pass over a level crossing? (I believe this branches off towards Eastbourne)

 

[Surreytraveller]

Why can’t RA indicators be fitted or is it the case that green flag use is to pass over a level crossing? (I believe this branches off towards Eastbourne)

Presumably green flags became the method of dispatch when they did away with guards. Installation of RAs would cost money

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Some stations have local rules that require the use of a flag during dispatch.

London Euston being a prime Example. All services are dispatched with the guard/TM using a green flag with the dispatcher then illuminating the RA.

 

[Ashley Hill]

London Euston being a prime Example. All services are dispatched with the guard/TM using a green flag with the dispatcher then illuminating the RA.

Same for plats 1-3 at Reading.

 

[Krokodil]

Why can’t RA indicators be fitted

It took long enough for several stations around here (with dreadfully curved platforms) to gain OFF indicators.

Some stations have local rules that require the use of a flag during dispatch.

London Euston being a prime Example. All services are dispatched with the guard/TM using a green flag with the dispatcher then illuminating the RA.

RA dispatch is used in a long list of locations. Originally because the driver would have difficulty seeing the guard at a long/crowded platform. They are used at Manchester Piccadilly and Birmingham New Street at all platforms, and are used at a number of WCML stations for Pendolinos and trains not equipped with buzzer communication (these days just charters, though the ATW LHCS set used to use the system at Crewe).

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It took long enough for several stations around here (with dreadfully curved platforms) to gain OFF indicators.


RA dispatch is used in a long list of locations. Originally because the driver would have difficulty seeing the guard at a long/crowded platform. They are used at Manchester Piccadilly and Birmingham New Street at all platforms, and are used at a number of WCML stations for Pendolinos and trains not equipped with buzzer communication (these days just charters, though the ATW LHCS set used to use the system at Crewe).

Yes RA is used at New St, but LNR use hand lamps rather than flags at that station. Euston is flag only

 

[Krokodil]

Yes RA is used at New St, but LNR use hand lamps rather than flags at that station. Euston is flag only

New Street is an underground station, hence hand lamps are always used. A hand lamp performs the same function as a flag where there's no daylight.

 

[Trackman]

Conductors/Train Managers also use green flags at stations where the station staff give the "RA" signal to the driver. The Conductor/Train Manager waves the green flag, closes their local door and waits for the station staff to operate the "RA" indicator as opposed to giving "two on the buzzer".

Only seen this used at P13 at Man Picc

 

[Ken H]

Thinking back to the 1980's at Settle station. The train (loco hauled) was too short for the platform, so drew up slowly under hand signals from the station man/woman. Hand outstretched and revolving to move up, both hands above heads to stop. Guard remained in his van. Once all station work was done, the guard blew his whistle, then showed a green flag or green bardic to give 'right away'
Is that still a current procedure?

 

[LowLevel]

Only seen this used at P13 at Man Picc

It's all platforms at Man Picc.

 

[Railcar]

Why can’t RA indicators be fitted or is it the case that green flag use is to pass over a level crossing? (I believe this branches off towards Eastbourne)

As a regular traveller through Haywards Heath (and seated on the platform side of carriage one), I haven't seen a green flag used by platform staff (though they usually chat to the driver). The nearest level crossing (for Eastbourne trains) is on Junction Road (between Wivelsfield and Burgess Hill), a few yards East of Keymer Junction (and a long way from Haywards Heath platforms).

 

[midland1]

Is not the use of the RA at New Street to stop the chance of a ding ding and away accident, as they will not light up unless the signal is off.

 

[island]

As a regular traveller through Haywards Heath (and seated on the platform side of carriage one), I haven't seen a green flag used by platform staff (though they usually chat to the driver). The nearest level crossing (for Eastbourne trains) is on Junction Road (between Wivelsfield and Burgess Hill), a few yards East of Keymer Junction (and a long way from Haywards Heath platforms).

The requirement is for the person in charge of platform to give "a green handsignal" to the driver to indicate a DOO train is ready to start away. A normal dispatch bat can't be used for this purpose (though it can be used to give the close-doors).

Traditionally a green flag was used to give the right-away but it's getting more common to use a dispatch bat fitted with a green light.

 

[Krokodil]

In 16x days Slough used to dispatch DOO trains using a bat for close doors, and a flag for RA. I would imagine that the 387s that replaced them self-dispatch using bodyside cameras

 

[800301]

In 16x days Slough used to dispatch DOO trains using a bat for close doors, and a flag for RA. I would imagine that the 387s that replaced them self-dispatch using bodyside cameras

Slough is still Mandatory dispatch for all traction at GWR, Bat and flag or lights on 2-5 and Platform 1 is Bat then RA, the majority of Dispatchers know just where to stand to be seen in the DOO cameras

 

[transportphoto]

Only seen this used at P13 at Man Picc

All platforms at Man Piccadilly as highlighted above. Other locations include EMR platforms at St Pancras, Birmingham New Street, Glasgow Queen Street is the same I believe too. If I recall correctly, Avanti departures from Liverpool Lime Street too.

 

[158801]

Both Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria use the green flag for dispatch and, until a few years ago, it was green flag dispatch at Manchester Airport too