Uses for ex-Grand Central Mk4s?

[ainsworth74]

A reminder that this thread is about future uses for Grand Central Mk4s not Chiltern's future rolling stock requirements. That's an interesting topic but one for a new thread please

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, "never say never"?

Modern Railways are reporting that XC are considering taking these sets to use between Manchester and Birmingham.

It's not like Arriva hasn't done something like this before...

 

[ABB125]

So, "never say never"?

Modern Railways are reporting that XC are considering taking these sets to use between Manchester and Birmingham.

It's not like Arriva hasn't done something like this before...

Where are they reporting it? I couldn't see anything on their Twitter or Facebook pages. Have you had a copy of the latest magazine delivered already?

 

[Speed43125]

So, "never say never"?

Modern Railways are reporting that XC are considering taking these sets to use between Manchester and Birmingham.

It's not like Arriva hasn't done something like this before...

Are you pulling our legs? or have they actually claimed that?

 

[DB]

Are you pulling our legs? or have they actually claimed that?

If it's true (big IF), it could possibly be the case that Arriva is tied in to a lease so is looking for something to do with them - remember that XC and GC are both owned by Arriva.

 

[The Planner]

Bet they haven't talked to their timetable people first. For any decent chance of doing that properly you are talking Dec 21. Its too close to the wire for May 21.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where are they reporting it? I couldn't see anything on their Twitter or Facebook pages. Have you had a copy of the latest magazine delivered already?

Yep, just popped through the letterbox this morning. It's referred to on the front page and is picked up in the news pages (page 13 if I recall).

 

[ABB125]

Bet they haven't talked to their timetable people first. For any decent chance of doing that properly you are talking Dec 21. Its too close to the wire for May 21.

Presumably due to the differing performance of a Mk 4 set compared to a voyager? What if they stuck two class 91s on top and tail?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you pulling our legs? or have they actually claimed that?

It's in the new MR.

 

[ABB125]

Yep, just popped through the letterbox this morning. It's referred to on the front page and is picked up in the news pages (page 13 if I recall).

Ok, mine normally arrives on the Thursday

 

[The Planner]

Presumably due to the differing performance of a Mk 4 set compared to a voyager? What if they stuck two class 91s on top and tail?

No, due to the timescales of timetable development. Operators will be bidding May 21 this week. There has been plenty of discussion in the past on here about splitting that service group in two and how it has issues.

 

[ABB125]

No, due to the timescales of timetable development. Operators will be bidding May 21 this week. There has been plenty of discussion in the past on here about splitting that service group in two and how it has issues.

Ah right, thanks

 

[hello]

How many sets are there?

 

[swt_passenger]

How many sets are there?

Four. According to discussions on the first page of this thread.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

So, what's the likely situation? Use 90s and Mk4s on a Birmingham - Manchester, and then cut the Bristol - Birmingham back to just a shuttle including the Exeter extensions (eventually)?

Extend those Bristol services using the Voyager stock to go to Nottingham?

 

[The Planner]

So, what's the likely situation? Use 90s and Mk4s on a Birmingham - Manchester, and then cut the Bristol - Birmingham back to just a shuttle including the Exeter extensions (eventually)?

Extend those Bristol services using the Voyager stock to go to Nottingham?

I doubt they have thought it through yet, as pre COVID they interworked with Bournemouths.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I doubt they have thought it through yet, as pre COVID they interworked with Bournemouths.

Well, if I can be so bold, I assume they could bugger about and make it work?

 

[popeter45]

does New street have enough capacity to for a terminator there?
i would say way better to stick on a 67/68 to allow a Rake to fully run the Bristol-Manchester route, could move to a 90/88/whatever if/when the rest of the Birmingham-Cheltenham-Bristol line gets electrified

 

[4-SUB 4732]

does New street have enough capacity to for a terminator there?
i would say way better to stick on a 67/68 to allow a Rake to fully run the Bristol-Manchester route, could move to a 90/88/whatever if/when the rest of the Birmingham-Cheltenham-Bristol line gets electrified

WMT are reducing services, and there will be more stuff terminating and starting back from New Street in future I'm sure. If they can correctly match the length of the rake, you can use any of 1b/2b/3b/4b, whilst also enabling 4b to be used to 'start back' an 8/350 on the Euston bit.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

This might seem daft, controversial but actually semi sensible, South Eastern pre-covid were begging for additional rolling stock for their High Speed service, the 395s run at 140mph, the Class 90 is capable of 140mph, if they were used exclusively for St Pancras to Ashford services either as additional trains during peak or just an extra tph during the day i think it'd work, they only run on OHLE and they would need to have TVM-430 added for in-cab signalling, it'd free up the 395s to do the Kent circular routes on 3rd rail which the Class 90 can't do! And definitely wouldn't provide any other issues like gauging etc... due the size of the Eurostar 374s showing modern railways don't have such huge problems

But as I said controversial, a bit of a waste of their long distance capabilities but suitable for their speed

 

[43096]

This might seem daft, controversial but actually semi sensible, South Eastern pre-covid were begging for additional rolling stock for their High Speed service, the 395s run at 140mph, the Class 90 is capable of 140mph, if they were used exclusively for St Pancras to Ashford services either as additional trains during peak or just an extra tph during the day i think it'd work, they only run on OHLE and they would need to have TVM-430 added for in-cab signalling, it'd free up the 395s to do the Kent circular routes on 3rd rail which the Class 90 can't do! And definitely wouldn't provide any other issues like gauging etc... due the size of the Eurostar 374s showing modern railways don't have such huge problems

But as I said controversial, a bit of a waste of their long distance capabilities but suitable for their speed

Class 90, 140mph? Are you thinking of 91s?

 

[popeter45]

This might seem daft, controversial but actually semi sensible, South Eastern pre-covid were begging for additional rolling stock for their High Speed service, the 395s run at 140mph, the Class 90 is capable of 140mph, if they were used exclusively for St Pancras to Ashford services either as additional trains during peak or just an extra tph during the day i think it'd work, they only run on OHLE and they would need to have TVM-430 added for in-cab signalling, it'd free up the 395s to do the Kent circular routes on 3rd rail which the Class 90 can't do! And definitely wouldn't provide any other issues like gauging etc... due the size of the Eurostar 374s showing modern railways don't have such huge problems

But as I said controversial, a bit of a waste of their long distance capabilities but suitable for their speed

the 90's can only do 110mph
the 91's where designed for 140mph but when converted to the 91/1's i think they got downrated to max 125mph

 

[Energy]

This might seem daft, controversial but actually semi sensible, South Eastern pre-covid were begging for additional rolling stock for their High Speed service, the 395s run at 140mph, the Class 90 is capable of 140mph, if they were used exclusively for St Pancras to Ashford services either as additional trains during peak or just an extra tph during the day i think it'd work, they only run on OHLE and they would need to have TVM-430 added for in-cab signalling, it'd free up the 395s to do the Kent circular routes on 3rd rail which the Class 90 can't do! And definitely wouldn't provide any other issues like gauging etc... due the size of the Eurostar 374s showing modern railways don't have such huge problems

But as I said controversial, a bit of a waste of their long distance capabilities but suitable for their speed

The 91s might be able to do 140mph but they take quite some time to get to that speed.

 

[ABB125]

The 91s might be able to do 140mph but they take quite some time to get to that speed.

Use two, top and tail!
I imagine the performance is rather better that way.

 

[DorkingMain]

I've seen some suggestions on this forum...

Crosscountry splitting their services for the sake of using electrics sounds like a rather bizarre way to tackle things. If anyone was really dead set on using these Mark 4s the most sensible thing would be a diesel or bi-mode loco haul

 

[Royston Vasey]

I've seen some suggestions on this forum...

Crosscountry splitting their services for the sake of using electrics sounds like a rather bizarre way to tackle things. If anyone was really dead set on using these Mark 4s the most sensible thing would be a diesel or bi-mode loco haul

Would love to see a reincarnation of a good old fashioned loco swap, like Crewe in the 80s all over again!

 

[craigybagel]

I've seen some suggestions on this forum...

Crosscountry splitting their services for the sake of using electrics sounds like a rather bizarre way to tackle things. If anyone was really dead set on using these Mark 4s the most sensible thing would be a diesel or bi-mode loco haul

What diesel or bi mode loco is there available that can match the timings of whatever stock it would be replacing?

 

[Energy]

Use two, top and tail!
I imagine the performance is rather better that way.

They are still geared for high speed but at the cost of acceleration, top and tail may help but I doubt it will be enough.

 

[DB]

What diesel or bi mode loco is there available that can match the timings of whatever stock it would be replacing?

Nothing. No current bi mode locos at all which would be capable. 68s the best diesels, but unlikely that DRS would have enough for this. 67s probably available, but their performance isn't great.

 

[Richard Scott]

does New street have enough capacity to for a terminator there?
i would say way better to stick on a 67/68 to allow a Rake to fully run the Bristol-Manchester route, could move to a 90/88/whatever if/when the rest of the Birmingham-Cheltenham-Bristol line gets electrified

Can always run through to International, would imagine with 5 platforms that could be a possibility?