Uses for ex-Grand Central Mk4s?

[Energy]

Covid secure bubble sets for taking football teams between Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and London!

Paths though, its too much effort to get a path specially for the train compared to getting a coach.

 

[urpert]

I'm half surprised no-one's suggested that being 140mph capable with a 91 stuck to them, they'd be "perfect" for Southeastern high speed services alongside the 395's.

Or maybe they could be used as trailer cars in rakes of 442 sets?

The Uckfield line doesn’t seem to have come up yet either...

 

[Bevan Price]

Pretty sure Crewe - Chester and Ffestiniog are going to be D Stock converts?

Unlikely that Class 230s could do the Crewe - Chester shuttles. With a 60 mph speed limit, it is unlikely that they could maintain a schedule which involves running from Chester to Crewe & return each hour.

 

[Journeyman]

The Uckfield line doesn’t seem to have come up yet either...

Woodhead, anyone?

Oh, hang on, someone's just mentioned the Great Central...

 

[43096]

Another charter set for LSL?

Better with Mark 3s. Mark 4s are fixed formation sets with limited route clearance.

 

[The Fox 4846]

I’ve thought about this for a while and have found a way for the platform space at New St. The best solution would be to route from Wolverhampton via Bescot therefore entering the Stour platforms such that the arr xx:57 and dep xx:31 paths are Used arr xx:05 and dep xx:25. The Reading service would then turn back between xx:52 & xx:04. Otherwise the other solutions would be to run to international and wait the turn back time there for about 40 mins or to run a loop via Bescot then soho using plat 6/7. It should be feasible due to the lower usage on the Stour platforms so long that the Doncaster and Banburys are inbetween the Leicester therefore using the same platform as both and the Hereford. Therefore it’s not out of the question to run the sets on XC by using the Stour platforms by running via Bescot.

* Using the one way loop it could use the opposite paths arr: xx:40 and dep xx:57 in order to maintain connections.

 

[Anonymous10]

Covid secure bubble sets for taking football teams between Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and London!

Now that's smart all fans pls board the football loco no more planning to dodge the matches

 

[The Planner]

I’ve thought about this for a while and have found a way for the platform space at New St. The best solution would be to route from Wolverhampton via Bescot therefore entering the Stour platforms such that the arr xx:57 and dep xx:31 paths are Used arr xx:05 and dep xx:25. The Reading service would then turn back between xx:52 & xx:04. Otherwise the other solutions would be to run to international and wait the turn back time there for about 40 mins or to run a loop via Bescot then soho using plat 6/7. It should be feasible due to the lower usage on the Stour platforms so long that the Doncaster and Banburys are inbetween the Leicester therefore using the same platform as both and the Hereford. Therefore it’s not out of the question to run the sets on XC by using the Stour platforms by running via Bescot.

* Using the one way loop it could use the opposite paths arr: xx:40 and dep xx:57 in order to maintain connections.

XC would not accept an increase in journey time, and you won't get to International either. Are you looking at this from a pre-COVID timetable as well?

 

[The Fox 4846]

XC would not accept an increase in journey time, and you won't get to International either. Are you looking at this from a pre-COVID timetable as well?

To be honest then no because due to capacity I don’t think the normal timetable will return for quite some time. It would be an increase of approximately 5 minutes but the positives outweighs this such as the freed up rolling stock and extra capacity.

 

[The Planner]

To be honest then no because due to capacity I don’t think the normal timetable will return for quite some time. It would be an increase of approximately 5 minutes but the positives outweighs this such as the freed up rolling stock and extra capacity.

What happens when it does? and you would be surprised how much notice XC would take of the 5 minutes.

 

[317 forever]

I wonder whether Chiltern would be interested? Either as a Mk 3 replacement or as a supplement? Might not be enough spare class 68s around though!

Actually yes. Arriva could keep the carriages for Chiltern to release some (former) 170s to EMR for Liverpool services. But like you say there is the question of finding compatible locos such as 68s.

Additional idea: So, these are currently in rakes of 6. Reduce them to rakes of 3 and procure sufficient 3rd rail locos to enable them to replace some Southern 313s.

 

[ABB125]

Additional idea: So, these are currently in rakes of 6. Reduce them to rakes of 3 and procure sufficient 3rd rail locos to enable them to replace some Southern 313s.

I can't think of any problems with that at all, why hasn't anyone thought of it before?

 

[JonathanH]

Actually yes. Arriva could keep the carriages for Chiltern to release some (former) 170s to EMR for Liverpool services. But like you say there is the question of finding compatible locos such as 68s.

Who would pay the extra costs of Chiltern operating these coaches rather than 168s? Even if the lease payments were zero, they would still incur more costs from track access and maintenance, not to mention the costs of training staff.

 

[ShadowKnight]

Could 91+mk4+43 work? Makes a bi mode train right there!

 

[swt_passenger]

I’ve thought about this for a while and have found a way for the platform space at New St. The best solution would be to route from Wolverhampton via Bescot therefore entering the Stour platforms such that the arr xx:57 and dep xx:31 paths are Used arr xx:05 and dep xx:25. The Reading service would then turn back between xx:52 & xx:04. Otherwise the other solutions would be to run to international and wait the turn back time there for about 40 mins or to run a loop via Bescot then soho using plat 6/7. It should be feasible due to the lower usage on the Stour platforms so long that the Doncaster and Banburys are inbetween the Leicester therefore using the same platform as both and the Hereford. Therefore it’s not out of the question to run the sets on XC by using the Stour platforms by running via Bescot.

* Using the one way loop it could use the opposite paths arr: xx:40 and dep xx:57 in order to maintain connections.

If you’re still aiming to split XC Man Picc to New St, then surely it’s the Bournemouth service that gets involved?

Splitting at New St has often been suggested, but it usually gets the thumb down after a few days discussion, because whatever you do you need extra train movements at New St.

 

[Speed43125]

Could 91+mk4+43 work? Makes a bi mode train right there!

Class 43 and Mk.4 are not compatible. (91 and Mk.3 are, but that's not particularly relevant here)

 

[popeter45]

Class 43 and Mk.4 are not compatible. (91 and Mk.3 are, but that's not particularly relevant here)

also a single class 43 is actually quite under powered so dunno if a single 43's could even pull a full mark 4 rake + 91 at any kind of high speed
would make far more sense to use something else like a class 67 or 68

 

[Speed43125]

also a single class 43 is actually quite under powered so dunno if a single 43's could even pull a full mark 4 rake + 91 at any kind of high speed
would make far more sense to use something else like a class 67 or 68

I don't think we're going to be seeing a 'full rake' of Mk.4s anywhere once LNER are done with them.

 

[popeter45]

bit of a curveball idea
new Royal Train?
stick a 68 one end, 88 on the other end
could even use other set for a similar train for Ministerial use?

 

[DB]

bit of a curveball idea
new Royal Train?
stick a 68 one end, 88 on the other end
could even use other set for a similar train for Ministerial use?

There's nothing wrong with the current one. What would be the point in considerable expenditure to end up with a train not much newer than the current one?

 

[virgintrain1]

I know this has already been mentioned but seriously why not Manchester-Birmingham on the XC route? I understand pre-Covid it wouldn’t have even been considered but now circumstances have changed. Their is shortage of voyager stock and will be another 1/2 years minimum before further diesel stock is transferred. This could then operate purely Manchester-Birmingham N St - (or International if paths permit). It could either operate as 1 train per hour or 2 and if more sets are needed could always utilise ex-LNER stock. If it was one per hour then the stock could be increased to 8 coaches and use the alternate paths ie: Bournemouth north and Bristol South meaning a 4hr round trip. The Reading service could then turn back at New St (arr: xx:48 dep: xx:04). The 8 voyagers could then be used to strengthen other sections of route, such as Birmingham - Doncaster such that Birmingham - Newcastle via Don and Birmingham - Leeds could operate. Failing this they could always be utilised between York - Edinburgh/Glasgow.

Problem is the Manchester services have a little bit of 125mph running and a frequent station stops so would surely loose to much time. What about running them Brum to Plymouth as you so would only need 110mph stock.

 

[Acc3lerat1on]

This might sound crazy but modifying the coaches and stick them in some 442s. They don't look to different (as said by someone who hasn't seen either in person).

 

[43096]

This might sound crazy but modifying the coaches and stick them in some 442s. They don't look to different (as said by someone who hasn't seen either in person).

Yes, it is completely crazy.

 

[DB]

This might sound crazy but modifying the coaches and stick them in some 442s. They don't look to different (as said by someone who hasn't seen either in person).

They are quite different! The 442s are Mk3. And several 442s have been or shortly will be scrapped, so if the operator of the remaining ones (SWR) wanted to extend them they could easily have done so.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Stick 'em back on the East Coast with the 91s? Send surplus Azumas over to Cross Country, Avanti, EMR, TPEX?

 

[Speed43125]

Stick 'em back on the East Coast with the 91s? Send surplus Azumas over to Cross Country, Avanti, EMR, TPEX?

I could get behind that!

 

[Trainician]

Could be useful for transpennine routes

 

[JonathanH]

Could be useful for transpennine routes

In what sense? A whole new fleet of trains has been procured and they aren't using all of them yet. They might have been useful if they had been available around five years ago

 

[CBlue]

Could be useful for transpennine routes

Is this before or after they're marshalled in with the 442s?

 

[Trainician]

In what sense? A whole new fleet of trains has been procured and they aren't using all of them yet. They might have been useful if they had been available around five years ago

So they could be involved in case there is limited amount of mk5a