Using a 16-17 railcard

[Fermiboson]

By what they are saying am I basically only going to get a fine after I show my DOB and no Court or Criminal record type of stuff?

Thank you for your response ,before we continue any further could you please supply some form of ID That includes a date of birth. This will aid in us our investigation and help towards and informed conclusion as you have a few misused 16-17 Railcard Journeys and some sporadic child bought tickets.



When we ask for proof of Date of birth it is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.


Based on their email are they asking for my date of birth and then are they going to charge me the full cost of the tickets I went wrong on before the incident I got caught in?

To be pedantic, it’s not a fine; it’s a private, out of court settlement between you and the train company, so yes, no criminal record or anything if you pay it. The TOC hasn’t made the actual offer yet, but it seems that things are going in that direction.

The response should be replied to truthfully.

 

[user2234]

Hello, I recently had an email from West Midlands about Using the 16-17 saver incorrectly. I accidentally brought a National railcard not the 16-17 saver. I got caught once and received an email 6 months later. I replied to the email and received this back

Thank you for your response ,before we continue any further could you please supply some form of ID That includes a date of birth. This will aid in us our investigation and help towards and informed conclusion as you have a few misused 16-17 Railcard Journeys and some sporadic child bought tickets.



When we ask for proof of Date of birth it is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.

I am 17 and will provide them with ID. The sporadic child tickets were brought for my 15 year old sister as she does not have a bank card.

Also Do you think they are referring to the tickets brought before the incident I was caught in?

What would you recommend?

 

[user2234]

To be pedantic, it’s not a fine; it’s a private, out of court settlement between you and the train company, so yes, no criminal record or anything if you pay it. The TOC hasn’t made the actual offer yet, but it seems that things are going in that direction.

The response should be replied to truthfully.

Yes, am I likely to be charged this admin fee as im under 18? I’m not sure?

 

[Fermiboson]

Yes, am I likely to be charged this admin fee as im under 18? I’m not sure?

You are likely to be offered an out of court settlement for an admin fee of £150 or so plus all evaded fares calculated at undiscounted Anytime Singles for every journey where you fare evaded, without regard for any fares already paid. I don’t know if this amount is likely to be reduced due to you being a minor, but don’t count on it.

 

[user2234]

You are likely to be offered an out of court settlement for an admin fee of £150 or so plus all evaded fares calculated at undiscounted Anytime Singles for every journey where you fare evaded, without regard for any fares already paid. I don’t know if this amount is likely to be reduced due to you being a minor, but don’t count on it.

By the email are they Charging me for all trains I booked wrong before the incident where I got caught or after? By the looks of it I think it’s before?

 

[Fermiboson]

By the email are they Charging me for all trains I booked wrong before the incident where I got caught or after? By the looks of it I think it’s before?

They haven’t given any numbers yet, so we don’t know.

 

[island]

I checked my account and after the event I was caught without the railcard I never then purchased a ticket again with the railcard option, I purchased about 8 tickets before it with the 16-17 railcard option on it however never got ticket searched on the trains. I have not been on a train since the incident, and the only tickets that have been brought have been for my younger sibling.

She is 15 and doesn’t have a bank card so my parents transfer money into my account and she buys tickets on my account with my card.

You must realise that this as explanations go sounds extremely implausible. If you are going to maintain this as your explanation, be prepared to provide proof that your "sister" exists, her age, and explanations why your parents didn't buy the tickets directly, why your sister wasn't given cash or a child debit card – these are available from age 11 – etc. Otherwise the inference drawn will be that you just bought yourself child tickets.

Will the trains that your "sister" used with these tickets have been at times when it reasonable for a schoolchild to have travelled?

 

[TrainLover79]

When you said “He didn’t charge me for a new ticket and instead said next time buy an adult one” . Did he ask for your details /made any comments about investigating the matter or did he just let you go? It seems a bit strange that after 7 months you get a random email

 

[user2234]

When you said “He didn’t charge me for a new ticket and instead said next time buy an adult one” . Did he ask for your details /made any comments about investigating the matter or did he just let you go? It seems a bit strange that after 7 months you get a random email

He didn’t ask for any details or say anything about investigating, just let me go. He got my email off the Ticket he scanned it seems

 

[island]

Please can you upload a scan/screenshot/copy of all of the correspondence you have had regarding this issue, covering only your personal details and reference numbers?

 

[skyhigh]

When you said “He didn’t charge me for a new ticket and instead said next time buy an adult one” . Did he ask for your details /made any comments about investigating the matter or did he just let you go? It seems a bit strange that after 7 months you get a random email

This is completely irrelevant.

 

[user2234]

This is completely irrelevant.

Also once I receive the fine how much Time am I likely to be given to pay it. I’m under 18 so I wasn’t sure

 

[CharlieSpotted]

You must realise that this as explanations go sounds extremely implausible. If you are going to maintain this as your explanation, be prepared to provide proof that your "sister" exists, her age, and explanations why your parents didn't buy the tickets directly, why your sister wasn't given cash or a child debit card – these are available from age 11 – etc. Otherwise the inference drawn will be that you just bought yourself child tickets.

We have also seen this explanation (buying child tickets on behalf of a younger sibling) a few times here recently, and if we've seen it a few times, you can bet the people doing these investigations for the train companies will have seen it many times...

 

[Pushpit]

By what they are saying am I basically only going to get a fine after I show my DOB and no Court or Criminal record type of stuff?

It's not clear and so it's only going to be a guess here, but proving your DOB would make it less likely for you to end up in court, they may have a policy in respect of processing cases relating to younger people. I can't see how it makes matters worse for you. But perhaps you could explain how this latest email came about? Did you send a message to West Midlands, for example, and what did it say?

I agree it is worth stating that the child tickets were for, and used by, your younger sister.

 

[Titfield]

Also once I receive the fine how much Time am I likely to be given to pay it. I’m under 18 so I wasn’t sure

As has been stated further upthread the administration fee charged is not a fine. A fine can only be levied by a court.

You will be expected to pay the administration fee and fares avoided within a very short period of time typically 7 days. If you do not pay in full within the time period specified the matter could be escalated to court which would significantly increase the total sum of money you owe and result in a criminal record. There are other ways that they could seek to recover the money if you do not pay - and these would not involve a conviction - but will still cost you more money overall.

 

[user2234]

Hello,
Since my investigation I was emailed by the digital fraud team asking me to provide my date of birth before they took it any further and sent me any fees that they deemed me to owe. I was told I had a few misused 16-17 saver tickets, of which I have now brought the 16-17 saver and sporadic child brought tickets

Last Monday I emailed them My date of birth showing I was 17 years old, since then I have not heard back from them, meaning it has nearly been a week. They usually were replying in 2-3 days before

What do you think will happen, as I was asked for DOB before they continued of which now I have provided ?

 

[6Gman]

Hello,
Since my investigation I was emailed by the digital fraud team asking me to provide my date of birth before they took it any further and sent me any fees that they deemed me to owe. I was told I had a few misused 16-17 saver tickets, of which I have now brought the 16-17 saver and sporadic child brought tickets

Last Monday I emailed them My date of birth showing I was 17 years old, since then I have not heard back from them, meaning it has nearly been a week. They usually were replying in 2-3 days before

What do you think will happen, as I was asked for DOB before they continued of which now I have provided ?

I would assume they will be checking the date of birth you have given against any records they have of your ticket buying history.

 

[user2234]

This was their email back to me:

Thank you for your response ,before we continue any further could you please supply some form of ID That includes a date of birth. This will aid in us our investigation and help towards and informed conclusion as you have a few misused 16-17 Railcard Journeys and some sporadic child bought tickets.


When we ask for proof of Date of birth it is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.

Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.

Thank you for your response ,before we continue any further could you please supply some form of ID That includes a date of birth. This will aid in us our investigation and help towards and informed conclusion as you have a few misused 16-17 Railcard Journeys and some sporadic child bought tickets.



When we ask for proof of Date of birth it is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.

This was their email back to me

I have now brought the 16-17 saver and sent them it so will this have any effect on the amounts I’m charged. May they charge me the fares off my railcard?

 

[methecooldude]

I have now brought the 16-17 saver and sent them it so will this have any effect on the amounts I’m charged. May they charge me the fares off my railcard?

No, they will be able to see when the railcard was purchased. Any fares paid before you purchased this 16-17 Saver that you added the discount too will be charged at the full rate, with no allowance for what you already paid

 

[user2234]

It has now been 2 weeks since I got a email asking for me to provide my date of birth before my case was took any further. I replied and haven’t heard back in 2 weeks. What do you all think?

 

[AlterEgo]

It has now been 2 weeks since I got a email asking for me to provide my date of birth before my case was took any further. I replied and haven’t heard back in 2 weeks. What do you all think?

To be absolutely clear, you’ve received no summons or any other paperwork in the meantime?

 

[user2234]

To be absolutely clear, you’ve received no summons or any other paperwork in the meantime?

No I have not received any letters from them or any emails since. I just got asked to confirm my date of birth which I did and I have had no response for 2 weeks

No I have not received any letters from them or any emails since. I just got asked to confirm my date of birth which I did and I have had no response for 2 weeks

Also I never recieved any letters it was only 2 emails

 

[user2234]

Hello,
3 weeks ago I received a email about a digital fraud investigation due to a few misused child tickets and 16-17 saver tickets.

I replied and got back a email saying please could I provide my date of birth before they take it any further or send fees.

I am 17 and I provided them with it. It has been 2 weeks and I have had no email back or any letters or anything.
Do you think this is a good sign or what do you all think?

 

[AlterEgo]

No I have not received any letters from them or any emails since. I just got asked to confirm my date of birth which I did and I have had no response for 2 weeks


Also I never recieved any letters it was only 2 emails

They can’t prosecute you for these offences. It’s possible they have realised this and closed your case, but you never know.

 

[user2234]

They can’t prosecute you for these offences. It’s possible they have realised this and closed your case, but you never know.

Are you sure?
Basically I didn’t realise I had the wrong railcard and offended maybe about 15 times by buying the wrong ticket.
When you mean they can’t prosecute me does that mean they can’t get me to pay a settlement or fine or anything?
I’m under 18 btw

Are you sure?
Basically I didn’t realise I had the wrong railcard and offended maybe about 15 times by buying the wrong ticket.
When you mean they can’t prosecute me does that mean they can’t get me to pay a settlement or fine or anything?
I’m under 18 btw

I also brought a few child tickets when I was 16 as well just to add on

@AlterEgo
This is what they said

Thank you for your response ,before we continue any further could you please supply some form of ID That includes a date of birth. This will aid in us our investigation and help towards and informed conclusion as you have a few misused 16-17 Railcard Journeys and some sporadic child bought tickets.



When we ask for proof of Date of birth it is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.

I replied with my DOB showing I’m 17 and there’s been nothing back for 2 weeks

 

[Hadders]

Two weeks isn't really long enough for the train company to reply. They deal with hundreds of cases at a time and replies often take several weeks.