Using Gatwick Express Web Duo tickets "backwards"

[talldave]

Gatwick Express Web Duo tickets are only available for journeys started from London. However, for a simple day trip, is there anything to stop the tickets being collected from Gatwick and being used Return portion first and Outward portion second?

I can see this being a case of paper tickets being much more flexible than Smart cards if that were the case.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The outward portion becomes invalid once you have started using the return portion. This applies to all return tickets - when travelling on the outward portion, you can in theory be asked by a ticket inspector to show your intact return portion. Whether that counts as "anything to stop you" is a different question though...

 

[talldave]

Thanks! No great desire to use invalidated tickets so probably a non-starter.

Such tricks used to be commonplace on airlines many years ago where it was more economical to buy two return tickets but and only use the return portions of each.

 

[Paul Kelly]

it was more economical to buy two return tickets but and only use the return portions of each.

That scenario is totally fine with rail tickets though - if you have no intention of using the outward portion then it is fine to discard it and use only the return portion. You just can't then change your mind and use the outward portion later.

 

[Squaddie]

Such tricks used to be commonplace on airlines many years ago where it was more economical to buy two return tickets but and only use the return portions of each.

No longer possible, thanks to technological improvements.

At Zurich airport last Monday I overheard a fellow passenger complaining bitterly that his entire ticket had been cancelled because he had failed to use the outward segment, and that he had had to pay almost £400 for a new one-way ticket in economy class.

 

[richw]

No longer possible, thanks to technological improvements.

At Zurich airport last Monday I overheard a fellow passenger complaining bitterly that his entire ticket had been cancelled because he had failed to use the outward segment, and that he had had to pay almost £400 for a new one-way ticket in economy class.

Likewise Brittany Ferries T&Cs state if you use only one leg of a special that you authorise them to charge the debit card the difference up to a full price. e.g. 24 hour returns are cheaper than a single.

 

[34D]

I'm very interested to hear that other industries aside from the railways do this sort of thing - any further examples?

 

[Hadders]

I wonder if anyone will try to 'simplify' railway terms and conditions and make it mandatory to use the outward portion of tickets?

I do hope not. Something I suspect we need to look out for with the move to smart ticketing.

 

[IanD]

They probably wouldn't, unless someone suggested it to them. Oh wait...

 

[jopsuk]

With the current paper ticketing arrangements there's no way to prove that an OUT has been used before a RTN. Airlines, ferries etc can do because they have a check in system, though so many of their tickets now are singles only anyway.

 

[redbutton]

Speaking as a former airline ticket agent:

Airlines will cancel your reservation for all subsequent travel if you fail to use an earlier segment.

E.g. you hold a ticket Paris - London - New York return, which may be cheaper than the London - New York ticket on the same flight. When you fail to board the Paris - London flight, they cancel the rest of your travel on that itinerary.

You can find more information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys.

One might say that the railway's Advance ticket conditions are modeled after airline T&Cs.

 

[Greenback]

Speaking as a former airline ticket agent:

Airlines will cancel your reservation for all subsequent travel if you fail to use an earlier segment.

E.g. you hold a ticket Paris - London - New York return, which may be cheaper than the London - New York ticket on the same flight. When you fail to board the Paris - London flight, they cancel the rest of your travel on that itinerary.

You can find more information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys.

One might say that the railway's Advance ticket conditions are modeled after airline T&Cs.

Indeed. I believe the airlines call your example 'Hidden City Ticketing'.

 

[LexyBoy]

With smart ticketing will come a lot of new opportunities. I suspect a lot of restrictions will be imposed just because it is possible - the general thought process being "stop them doing everything we can, just in case". Smartcards would also make it possible to prevent split ticketing without changing trains, amongst other things.

Whilst smartcards may turn out to be more flexible for seasons and (maybe) spur-of-the-moment trips, I expect them to be much more restrictive in other ways.

 

[Greenback]

With smart ticketing will come a lot of new opportunities. I suspect a lot of restrictions will be imposed just because it is possible - the general thought process being "stop them doing everything we can, just in case". Smartcards would also make it possible to prevent split ticketing without changing trains, amongst other things.

Whilst smartcards may turn out to be more flexible for seasons and (maybe) spur-of-the-moment trips, I expect them to be much more restrictive in other ways.

This is exactly why I am not a huge fan of smartcards. I can see them being used as a way to reduce splitting.

 

[Hadders]

Fares simplification is great in principle and if/when it happens it'll be trumpeted in the Daily Hate as being the best thing since sliced bread.

However, we must be very watchful that any simplification does not erode passenger rights, particularly regarding combinations of tickets, starting and finishing short.

I recently made a journey from Stevenage to Bath to watch a rugby match, leaving Paddington in the evening peak and returning later the same evening. The railway wanted me to pay £202 for this journey (price of an SOR - to be fair an SDS and SSS would be 'only' £164). I paid £43 to travel on exactly the same trains, using a simple combination to get round the evening peak restriction from Paddington (it was nice to be congratulated by the guard on my choice of tickets too!)

Now, if fares were simplified how much would I have to pay? £202, £164 or £43.

I know which fare it wouldn't be!!!

 

[cjp]

No longer possible, thanks to technological improvements.

At Zurich airport last Monday I overheard a fellow passenger complaining bitterly that his entire ticket had been cancelled because he had failed to use the outward segment, and that he had had to pay almost £400 for a new one-way ticket in economy class.

Yes I was even told that if I bought another, later, flight back to Hong Kong than my booked flight they would cancel the rest of my ticket onto London. Pricing Madness