valenta to MTU

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9007pinza

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I used to be a `spotter` in my youth, but still hold an avid interest in locos and stock.
I recently spent the night in Newcastle overlooking the station. I was interested to see many movements. However, i did regret not to hear the impressive departing noise of a HST with Valenta engines!
Can any one shed any light as to why most if not all HST powers car have been replaced with MTU`s?, Was it pure engineering that forced the change?
 
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Rich McLean

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More economical, better reliability (in theory) less pollution, and low noise pollution.

I'm sure someone could add to this
 

ainsworth74

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Can any one shed any light as to why most if not all HST powers car have been replaced with MTU's?

All East Coast, Grand Central, First Great Western, Cross Country and Network Rail HSTs have MTUs. East Midlands Trains have VP185s which are slightly older than MTUs and also have an slightly better sound than MTUs.
 

starrymarkb

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Basically HST re-engineering has been considered for quite a while. BR looked into the VP185 and Mirrlees as Valenta replacements and this continued after privatisation.

When it became apparent that HST2 wasn't going to be built any time soon, FGW started looking at alternatives. They had already tried the VP185 but IIRC Alstom's customer support was lacking. They then trialled the MTU 4000 series in two power cars which were overhauled by Brush from 2005. These ran in service and comparisons were made with the Valenta and VP185. The mass MTU program started towards the end of 2006.

FGW also had noise in mind. Complaints had been made about noise from HST's leaving Paddington, especially with the increase in frequency on Bristol and Cardiff runs they couldn't really claim the noise had always been there hence FGW requiring a notch 2 departure with the Valenta.

I remember reading a comment that depot staff were having to do full oil changes on the MTUs, with the Valenta they just topped it up as it burnt the oil before it needed cleaning!
 
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fairysdad

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When it became apparent that HST2 wasn't going to be built any time soon, FGW started looking at alternatives . . . They then trialled the MTU 4000 series in two power cars which were overhauled by Brush from 2005. These ran in service and comparisons were made with the Valenta and VP185. The mass MTU program started towards the end of 2006.

FGW also had noise in mind. Complaints had been made about noise from HST's leaving Paddington, especially with the increase in frequency on Bristol and Cardiff runs they couldn't really claim the noise had always been there hence FGW requiring a notch 2 departure with the Valenta.
I remember hearing a story that a signalman in a Cornish 'box reported that one power car of an HST that passed wasn't working because that was one of the power cars that had been converted. Does anybody know if this story is true or not? Quite amusing if it is!
 

Schnellzug

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I remember hearing a story that a signalman in a Cornish 'box reported that one power car of an HST that passed wasn't working because that was one of the power cars that had been converted. Does anybody know if this story is true or not? Quite amusing if it is!

I seem to recall it was reported in RAIL. It was one of the prototypes, soon after it had been done, I believe.
 

317666

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The MTU engines are also more reliable, towards the end the Valentas were falling to pieces - Grand Central had to limit their remaining ones to Notch 4 as the reliability was becoming so bad.
 

starrymarkb

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Something I might point out. MTU was founded by the merger of Mercedes Benz and Maybach... Didn't the Western Region prefer the likes of Maybach...

[youtube]IQu8LNdg8C8[/youtube]
 

Zoe

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Are the MTU engines more suited for the semi-fast commuter services from Paddington to Oxford/Westbury that HSTs are now used on?
 
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9007pinza

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Some interesting comments guys, makes good reading. I love the comment about the lack of oil changes because they burned so much!!
I understand why the MTU is used now, but I wonder are the Valentas still made by Paxman?, even in an upgraded from to suit emmision controls for the 21st century
 

starrymarkb

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Some interesting comments guys, makes good reading. I love the comment about the lack of oil changes because they burned so much!!
I understand why the MTU is used now, but I wonder are the Valentas still made by Paxman?, even in an upgraded from to suit emmision controls for the 21st century

Paxman are now part of MAN... The upgraded version was the VP185 which is no longer in Production.. If you still want to hear Valentas (but I don't think they scream) then join the Navy!
 

Schnellzug

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Just out of interest, Deltic engines were still in production up until the late 80s for naval use; Napier and Paxman both became subsidiaries of English Electric in the late 60s, and Paxman continued production. this is quite an interesting history of Paxman.
 

paul1609

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We still currently have 7 minesweepers in use that are using deltic engines including my own, however these are a development of the 9 cylinder version used in the class 23.
An upgrade started last year to replace them all with modern Cat engines.
 
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