Valid route and Break of Jouney - condundrum?

[Harpers Tate]

For the purposes of this exercise, let us suppose that the ticket held is a straightforward "any permitted" return with no break of journey restrictions, from A to D, and not operator specific.

The normal daily, daytime service pattern has through services between A and D via B. Thus, regardless of any routing restriction, the passenger may travel A-B-D on these through services.

As it happens, A-B-D is not a valid (any permitted) route according to the guide. There is a more direct route A-C-D which is the only valid route, although there are no through services this way; one must connect at C to use this route. All through services go via B.

Hypothetical question: One wants to break one's journey at an intermediate stop on the route A-B-D that is NOT also on the route A-C-D. Is this valid -
(a) where all the trains used are part of the normal pattern through service A-B-D
(b) if at least one of the trains used is not a through A-B-D service but is an alternate service on all or part of the route A-B or B-D (like, A-B-X or A-B only or B-D only or X-B-D).

 

[JB_B]

B doesn't lie on the shortest route (nor any route within 3 miles of the shortest route)

B doesn't lie on a mapped route.

So, it's only the through train rule that allows you to get to and from B (ie the fact that your train is going from A to D via B.)

So I think the answers are...

(a) where all the trains used are part of the normal pattern through service A-B-D

Yes.

(b) if at least one of the trains used is not a through A-B-D service but is an alternate service on all or part of the route A-B or B-D (like, A-B-X or A-B only or B-D only or X-B-D).

No, I'd say they'd both need to be A-B-D.

It seems that RDG would also like you to look at fares as well (see e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ght-on-a-off-peak-return.146973/#post-2998618 .) There's no mention of this in the routeing guide itself (re the through train rule) - I'm not sure that they're correct.

 

[Haywain]

I don't believe there is anything that confirms or denies the right to break of journey at such a point as B. The ticket is undoubtedly valid to use on through trains regardless of route but break of journey is, at best, questionable.

 

[MotCO]

In this example given, what happens if service changes occur which means that A-B-D is no longer a direct service. Presumably it is no longer a valid route.

 

[JB_B]

I don't believe there is anything that confirms or denies the right to break of journey at such a point as B. The ticket is undoubtedly valid to use on through trains regardless of route but break of journey is, at best, questionable.

The (public-facing) routeing guide is so woefully under-determined that it's hardly surprising that you can't find confirmation either way. As far as I can tell the further (non-public) guidance to developers is little better.

I'd think of it this way...

1:Am I on-route for my ticket at B?

Yes: because of the through-train rule I'm not off-route.

2:Can I break my journey here at B.

As long as the ticket allows, yes.

...but alternative constructions are possible (and potentially more reasonable) - I'd be interested to hear them.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think it may be helpful to consider the impact of Section 69(1) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 here. This dictates that, in a consumer contract, any term that could have different meanings must be interpreted in line with the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer.

If there is any question over whether or not the NRCoT allow break of journey on a route that it is permitted only by virtue of using a through train, I would suggest the above Section means that it is indeed permitted.

Some will say, "don't try and argue that - you'll risk everything being defined clearly against the consumer". Quite ignoring the fact that any changes to the NRCoT must be agreed by the DfT in advance, I would argue that - even if the NRCoT is revised to make clear that break of journey is explicitly not permitted on such a route - it is a better situation to be in, than the current situation where passengers may be cautious of breaking their journey on such a route (despite it potentially being their contractual right to do so), and where generally there is a lot of doubt either way.

 

[Skymonster]

NRCoT puts the emphasis for determining whether a trip is valid on the National Rail Journey Planner - at least as far as the casual customer is concerned:

• The easiest way to check for valid routes is to use the journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk

So assuming this is not just a hypothetical situation, does NRE produce the same fare for direct A to D (on the through route) as it does for A to D specifying the the intermediate point you want to break at as a 'via'. While I accept that 'via' might not be quite the same as 'break', I'd suggest that if it can be demonstrated that NRE allows travel via the place you want to break on the A-B-D route, arguments that it wasn't valid would be difficult to sustain even if it involved different TOCs - especially if you can get NRE to give you an itinerary from A to D through B via your break point with different TOCs.