Vaping on Trains and vaping in general

[Cornish Pasty]

How to stop this vile habit.
It’s stinking enough on this GWR train from Salisbury to Southampton without that too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What is there to discuss? It’s illegal, some people do it anyway, chances are the staff won’t see, and if they do and call the BTP, they’ve successfully wasted the BTP’s time.

 

[hexagon789]

Technically it isn't illegal. But AFAIAA all TOCs plus Network Rail have banned it on their trains/property.

Ie the legal situation is the same as it was before the smoking ban, many TOCs had banned it but it wasn't illegal to smoke.

They can certainly ask people to stop doing it, and probably ask them to leave their trains/stations but they couldn't lay criminal charges as you could for an offence under the various legal Public Health Act smoking bans that apply in each of the four UK nations.

 

[Neo9320]

How to stop this vile habit.
It’s stinking enough on this GWR train from Salisbury to Southampton without that too.

Whilst I agree this shouldn’t be done on trains, this ‘vile habit’ is helping a lot of people give up smoking cigarettes.

I agree (even as a smoker) it’s annoying, however the alternative is someone smoking cigarettes, which no one wants (before anyone says it yes I know the alternative is giving up!).

The TOCs are doing as much as they can with signs and announcements. GWR I notice are very hot on this, I’ve seen people at Taunton station called out for vaping plenty of times.

The best thing you can do is alert the on train crew and let them deal with it. A lot of people are still of the view that it is allowed on trains (despite all of the announcements and signs) although with the way things currently stand with anti social behaviour on the railway I doubt this would make much of a difference at all.

Best solution, move to another unit. Not ideal I know, but effective.

 

[BeccaOnATrain]

Had this happen on a train back from Blackpool at the weekend. Both parents of a family with young children who were treating the carriage as a playpark climbing all over the tables and hanging off the overhead storage.. They vaped for most of the journey!

I wasn't sure who to report it to or if it was worth the hassle. I couldn't see a guard on the train for the entire journey and no one came to check the tickets. No one else in the carriage seemed particularly bothered by their antics so I didn't want to cause a scene. I'm surprised to hear it's only banned and not actually illegal though, thought admittedly I'm not entirely sure what the difference would be in terms of punishment if it were "illegal"..

 

[mikeg]

I usually have a polite word, usually to be ignored but sometimes successful. I will always mention it to the guard if he or she should happen to pass, usually successful though occasionally people will start vaping again when the guard has gone.

I'm surprised to hear it's only banned and not actually illegal though, thought admittedly I'm not entirely sure what the difference would be in terms of punishment if it were "illegal"..

The difference being that the passenger could be reported for prosecution, as can and does happen for breaking byelaw 3.

 

[Trackman]

I remember once travelling on a commuter train and saw a huge, I really mean huge cloud of smoke (vape), akin to a steam engine. People actually thought there was a fire or something wrong with the train. Someone piped up they had spotted someone vaping and went over to tell them to stop it and gave other various threats and it ceased.

 

[Parjon]

I usually have a polite word, usually to be ignored but sometimes successful.

I have a word, never polite. Why should I be, when they are stinking up the place.

If it's kids I alert the train crew who have a word, check their tickets etc. If it's an adult they can expect to be called out about their disgusting (and pathetic) activity in front of everyone.

The use of vaping to help individuals give up smoking is now vastly outweighed by the number of young people that are getting hooked, and being deliberately targeted. What was the point of banning smoking in public places just to create this.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I was under the impression that vaping was in the same category as e-cigarettes, and that that category was covered by the no smoking law i.e. wherever smoking was illegal, using e-cigarettes or vapes was also illegal. Is that not the case?

 

[Man_with_beard]

How to stop this vile habit.
It’s stinking enough on this GWR train from Salisbury to Southampton without that too.

Do you have the same kind of opinion on people who drink alcohol on trains? I'd rather sit next to a person vaping than a person drinking.

 

[Thirteen]

I think in public places, vaping needs to be treated like smoking with heavy warnings and fines. I have noticed that the tone for telling people they can't vape has gone from polite to stern which is fair enough.

 

[JD2168]

Vaping is becoming more of a problem on Public Transport, seen it more on buses than trains myself but it should not happen at all. Some passengers may have breathing/health issues which are made worse by these.

I think a bigger problem overall would be to stop the kids & teenagers from vaping who have never smoked before.

 

[Man_with_beard]

I think in public places, vaping needs to be treated like smoking with heavy warnings and fines. I have noticed that the tone for telling people they can't vape has gone from polite to stern which is fair enough.

Why? Smoking is very bad for you hence why it was banned in public buildings. There is so much out there highlighting the dangers of smoking and passive smoking and in 2005 the government finally realised they had to do something to curb down on the problem because smoking was putting pressure on health services .. is there the same amount of evidence suggesting vaping can kill you or does vaping put increasing pressure on the NHS as much drinking and smoking? I see no reason to ban it and treat it like smoking until its proven to be bad for your health.

 

[43066]

I agree (even as a smoker) it’s annoying, however the alternative is someone smoking cigarettes, which no one wants (before anyone says it yes I know the alternative is giving up!).

There is an issue with teenagers and young adults smoking who have never vaped, though.

I think a bigger problem overall would be to stop the kids & teenagers from vaping who have never smoked before.

Indeed.

There is so much out there highlighting the dangers of smoking and passive smoking and in 2005 the government finally realised they had to do something to curb down on the problem because smoking was putting pressure on health services ..

To be fair it has been “officially” known that smoking was bad since at least the 1950s. It wasn’t something that was suddenly realised in 2005.

is there the same amount of evidence suggesting vaping can kill you or does vaping put increasing pressure on the NHS as much drinking and smoking? I see no reason to ban it and treat it like smoking until its proven to be bad for your health.

Only because vaping hasn’t been around for that long, so a lot is unknown about it. Big tobacco has also got behind vaping because they know it’s addictive and, given their less than illustrious history of suppressing scientific evidence of the dangers of smoking, and spreading misinformation etc. that doesn’t bode well…

I wouldn’t ban vaping (or smoking) in public areas, but I would in indoor settings, on public transport etc.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Technically it isn't illegal. But AFAIAA all TOCs plus Network Rail have banned it on their trains/property.

Ie the legal situation is the same as it was before the smoking ban, many TOCs had banned it but it wasn't illegal to smoke.

They can certainly ask people to stop doing it, and probably ask them to leave their trains/stations but they couldn't lay criminal charges as you could for an offence under the various legal Public Health Act smoking bans that apply in each of the four UK nations.

It isn't technically legal, it is legal and the situation isn't the same as before the smoking ban as the railway byelaws prohibit smoking where a no smoking sign is displayed but there is nothing in law or railway byelaws prohibiting vaping. Some people consider vaping to be the same as smoking but they're wrong. Vaping on public transport is bad manners but that is as far as it goes.

 

[Steve Harris]

.. is there the same amount of evidence suggesting vaping can kill you or does vaping put increasing pressure on the NHS as much drinking and smoking? I see no reason to ban it and treat it like smoking until its proven to be bad for your health.

I've certainly seen news articles on TV claiming that some vapes being sold contain more nicotine than some cigarettes!!

Notably when trading standards have confiscated them off traders/retailers.

So, going on that, some vapes are certainly as bad, if not more so, for your health. And I don't particularly want to wait to find 'it proven' if I'm forced to breath it in in the meantime thank you very much, as I did enough passive smoking in the earlier part of my life to... erm last a lifetime !

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I have said it many times on this forum before, and I'll say it again....

If we the train crew do not know its happening, we cannot do anything about it. Be pro-active and seek us out. Or tweet/DM the social media channel of the relevant train company and they will contact the duty train crew to alert them/us. Please dont stew on it and complain about it on here several hours after the trip as nothing will be done about it and the "offenders" will simply behave in this manner time and time again if not checked.

 

[43066]

Vaping on public transport is bad manners but that is as far as it goes.

It isn’t yet specifically dealt with by bylaws, but it also isn’t “just bad manners”. It is expressly prohibited on trains and NR property and, if you’re caught doing it, you will be asked to stop and could be required to leave. If you refuse to follow instructions, or to leave when instructed, at that point an offence is indeed committed.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It isn't technically legal, it is legal and the situation isn't the same as before the smoking ban as the railway byelaws prohibit smoking where a no smoking sign is displayed but there is nothing in law or railway byelaws prohibiting vaping. Some people consider vaping to be the same as smoking but they're wrong. Vaping on public transport is bad manners but that is as far as it goes.

Nicotine in itself isn’t harmful to health?

 

[Stewart2887]

I have said it many times on this forum before, and I'll say it again....

If we the train crew do not know its happening, we cannot do anything about it. Be pro-active and seek us out. Or tweet/DM the social media channel of the relevant train company and they will contact the duty train crew to alert them/us. Please dont stew on it and complain about it on here several hours after the trip as nothing will be done about it and the "offenders" will simply behave in this manner time and time again if not checked.

So on DOO services we pull the cord? Nor do I tweet. I'll stay in my car then. It's not the worst problem passengers face I guess

 

[VauxhallandI]

It isn't technically legal, it is legal and the situation isn't the same as before the smoking ban as the railway byelaws prohibit smoking where a no smoking sign is displayed but there is nothing in law or railway byelaws prohibiting vaping. Some people consider vaping to be the same as smoking but they're wrong. Vaping on public transport is bad manners but that is as far as it goes.

Yep it’s extremely lazy adoption of “and that includes e-cigarettes“ that annoys me. Just another example of over reach with o evidence and I’ve had enough of that in recent times

 

[Thirteen]

It isn’t yet specifically dealt with by bylaws, but it also isn’t “just bad manners”. It is expressly prohibited on trains and NR property and, if you’re caught doing it, you will be asked to stop and could be required to leave. If you refuse to follow instructions, or to leave when instructed, at that point an offence is indeed committed.

I think the notices needs to be a lot stronger in wording but also there needs to be a way to enforce it. A fine of say £100 would do the trick, what did they do when smoking was banned on public transport and stations?

I struggle to comprehend why people decide to have a vape on public transport or places like the theatre or the cinema? Are you that addicted to nicotine that you cannot go a few hours or minutes without having a puff?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Is it really that much of an issue? So long as they aren't re-creating the "Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be..." moment from Stars in Their Eyes it doesn’t particularly bother me. I'd take that over some of the other smells and behaviours on public transport any day.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It isn’t yet specifically dealt with by bylaws, but it also isn’t “just bad manners”. It is expressly prohibited on trains and NR property and, if you’re caught doing it, you will be asked to stop and could be required to leave. If you refuse to follow instructions, or to leave when instructed, at that point an offence is indeed committed.

They can't expressly prohibit anything unless they have a law to back it up. Company policy means literally nothing and if you have business on the railway and are not in breach of byelaws you don't have to leave at all.

 

[43066]

Nicotine in itself isn’t harmful to health?

Nicotine is harmful to health.

Yep it’s extremely lazy adoption of “and that includes e-cigarettes“ that annoys me. Just another example of over reach with o evidence and I’ve had enough of that in recent times

Vaping is less dangerous smoking, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe. Lots simply isn’t known about it. Agree with your last sentence but I wouldn’t put this in the same category as Covid restrictions.

They can't expressly prohibit anything unless they have a law to back it up. Company policy means literally nothing and if you have business on the railway and are not in breach of byelaws you don't have to leave at all.

Incorrect on all counts.

The railway is private property and they can prohibit whatever they like.

If you’re asked to leave by a member of staff, and you refuse, you are committing railway trespass which is a criminal offence.

I think the notices needs to be a lot stronger in wording but also there needs to be a way to enforce it. A fine of say £100 would do the trick, what did they do when smoking was banned on public transport and stations?

I struggle to comprehend why people decide to have a vape on public transport or places like the theatre or the cinema? Are you that addicted to nicotine that you cannot go a few hours or minutes without having a puff?

Agreed. They need to amend the relevant bylaw and then they will be able to issue penalties/prosecutions specifically for vaping. Obviously enforcement is another issue entirely, but at least that will be a start.

 

[Undiscovered]

Do you have the same kind of opinion on people who drink alcohol on trains? I'd rather sit next to a person vaping than a person drinking.

Unless the person you're sitting next to is chucking thier alcohol all over the seats, other passengers and dispersing it through the whole carriage, I would expect an alcohol drinker to just have it on their breath.
Which you'd need to be in close proximity to smell.
Generally, those who drink alcohol, to that extent, on trains, tend not to draw attention to themselves.
Whereas those who vape are utterly indiscriminate about what they do and what they vape in their vape pipes. It stinks the whole carriage out.

If you wanna get stoned off second hand vaping, then be my guest.

 

[Thirteen]

The railway is private property and they can prohibit whatever they like.

If you’re asked to leave by a member of staff, and you refuse, you are committing railway trespass which is a criminal offence.



Agreed. They need to amend the relevant bylaw and then they will be able to issue penalties/prosecutions specifically for vaping. Obviously enforcement is another issue entirely, but at least that will be a start.

I suspect it's a matter of when rather than if in regards to the bylaws being updated to penalise or prosecute anyone who is vaping.

Having had a quick scan at various T&Cs, most if not all indoor spaces prohibit vaping and if you don't comply, you will be kicked out and given these have been place for a number of years, people can't claim ignorant.

 

[Mugby]

Is it really that much of an issue? So long as they aren't re-creating the "Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be..." moment from Stars in Their Eyes it doesn’t particularly bother me. I'd take that over some of the other smells and behaviours on public transport any day.

Absolutely.

Those who are inclined to get hysterical about vaping use such emotive words as 'stinking' when in fact the vapour doesn't stink, the vape may be flavoured but that's only apparent to the person using it.

I've sat next to, or close to people consuming hot takeaway food which has been vile and stinking but I don't consider it to be worth getting apoplectic about!

 

[jnjkerbin]

the vapour doesn't stink, the vape may be flavoured but that's only apparent to the person using it.

Utter rubbish.

 

[Spartacus]

the vapour doesn't stink, the vape may be flavoured but that's only apparent to the person using it.

Bull. Like farts some might not stink, but the majority do.