Venice-Mestre "Tram"

[Mutant Lemming]

Is it a tram or a trolleybus ?

 

[Adlington]

Trams in Venice and Mestre are rubber-tired, with a single guiderail embedded in the pavement.
https://europeforvisitors.com/venice/mestre/mestre-venice-tram.htm

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Trams in Venice and Mestre are rubber-tired, with a single guiderail embedded in the pavement.
https://europeforvisitors.com/venice/mestre/mestre-venice-tram.htm

Yes - and the single rail in the road looks like a rail but the road wheels are rubber tyres. So is it really a tram or a guided trolleybus ?

The thing that makes it look more tram-like is the use of a pantograph to pick up current but the wheels are most definitely rubber tired and run on a roadway so is it really a tram ?

 

[edwin_m]

I think this is a Translohr, as also seen on several of the lines in Paris advertised as trams. Having sampled it there I'd say it is far short of a real tram in passenger space and ride quality, though it can go round tighter curves.

 

[Adlington]

Translohr is a rubber-tired tramway (or guided bus) system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translohr

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Translohr is a rubber-tired tramway (or guided bus) system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translohr

Thanks for that - I think the phrase "Unlike other guided bus systems...." actually nails it.

 

[Hornet]

Translohr Tram and 'Points' Clermont Ferrand.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The Venezia Mestre ones look exactly the same.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Well you learn something everyday, I had never heard of this before. Does look more like a tram rather than a bus or trolley bus.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I think the use of a pantograph as opposed to a trolley (maybe it should be termed a pantograph bus) makes it look more tram-like.

 

[etr221]

My take is that it is a mono-rail and street-running equivalent to the pneumatic tired Paris (and elsewhere) Metro trains; and so a street-running train, in other words a tram.

 

[edwin_m]

There was also the Bombardier GLT or TVR system that use the same idea of a rubber tyres and a single guidance rail, but wasn't compatible with Translohr. There were a couple of routes in France, one equipped with double trolley poles that could also operate as a conventional unguided trolleybus. However there were some accidents on the transition between guided and unguided, one of which resulted in part of the vehicle colliding with an overhead line support. It was reported that energy consumption was significantly higher than a conventional tram, probably due to the increased rolling resistance of rubber tyres.

To my mind these systems have the disadvantages of both the tram (high cost and inflexibility of fixed infrastructure) and the bus (high energy consumption, limited vehicle size). Bombardier seems to have lost interest in the system and at least one of the operating routes is to be abandoned.

 

[MarcVD]

Caen - abandoned night now, undergoing transformation to classical tram.
Nancy - still in operation, with the help of a few vehicles tranferred from Caen, to be transformed in a real tram in the next few years. Both from Bombardier.

Translohr (now Alstom) still has Clermont Ferrand as Well as a few lines in the Paris suburbs, promised to Alstom in exchange of the Translohr take-over.

The biggest problem with rubber-tired trams is that in guided mode, all wheels pass exactly at the same place, and no other support than steel resists to such treatment. Asphalt, concrete... all wear out very rapidly, needing constant repairs.

 

[jopsuk]

the version in Nancy (and formerly Caen) was more a guided bus- the vehicles can operate away from the guide rail as they have a steering wheel. In Nancy they even use a trolley wire system (the Caen ones had a diesel engine on board for away from wires)

 

[Mutant Lemming]

My take is that it is a mono-rail and street-running equivalent to the pneumatic tired Paris (and elsewhere) Metro trains; and so a street-running train, in other words a tram.

The rail is a guide rail only though - the vehicle's wheels run on the road and not rails so although it does look tram-like (shape and pantograph to collect current) I can't see how it can be classified as a tram when it doesn't run on rails. It also feels more like a bus than a tram to ride on.

 

[edwin_m]

Many mono-rails are of course also rubber-tyre vehicles. The tyres are hidden behind the shrouding underneath the vehicle, and run along the top and sides of a concrete beam.