Victorialine67 stock

[37401]

Hello all

Sorry if this has been covered before but does anyone know when the 67 stock is due to be replaced (I know some 09 trains are in service now but I mean fully replaced)

And does anyone know if somethings been done to save a set? I did think of setting up a pres group myself but I gave up when I was told the cost by a friend

Thanks

Ian (the vic line veg)

 

[Fincra5]

Hello all

Sorry if this has been covered before but does anyone know when the 67 stock is due to be replaced (I know some 09 trains are in service now but I mean fully replaced)

And does anyone know if somethings been done to save a set? I did think of setting up a pres group myself but I gave up when I was told the cost by a friend

Thanks

Ian (the vic line veg)

I thought most or some ont he Victoria line trains were going to the bakerloo line, as the stock has been more succesful than that of the bakerloo.

 

[37401]

hmm intresting thanks for letting me know, nice to know these trains are still going to be kept in service, I love em the crashing and clattering as you blast along is music to my ears

 

[Mr Spock]

Sure that it has been covered elsewhere but it is my understanding that some Victoria Line stock was going to the Bakerloo for extending trains to Watford Junction but this is not now happening as TFL have Overground.

Result is that all Victoria Stock will likely be scrapped now.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Some 1967 Stock have been scrapped already I believe one went to Acton in the Summer of 2009, there were some rumours that 67 stock will move to the Bakerloo Line but I don't know the full extent of the truth regarding this rumour.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Some 1967 Stock have been scrapped already I believe one went to Acton in the Summer of 2009, there were some rumours that 67 stock will move to the Bakerloo Line but I don't know the full extent of the truth regarding this rumour.

Not true (well the unit that was at Action last year anyway). The 67TS regularly goes to Action for work that can't be done at Northumberland Park. This will change with the arrival of the 09TS as they can't reach Acton as they are too big to fit down the Piccadilly Line's tunnels.

The original plan to cut the DC Lines back to Queen's Park is offically dead after TfL spend all that money on new 378's.

There many be some movement of 67TS carriages to the Bakerloo to make a few extra trains but it seems that apart from a single 4 car thats going to the Transport Musuem the rest will be scrapped.

Note atleast one 67TS was scrapped awhile ago after being damaged. Part of it is now at a museum in Walthamstow rotting away.

The full fleet of new 09TS is due to be by next summer as Bombardier have only started to provide production trains (first two were test trains) and the first of these is now on test on the Victoria Line (Train 4) as well as Train 2 (test unit that was fully fitted out with seats unlike Train 1 which has gone back to Bombardier to be kitted out).

 

[Drsatan]

I'd have thought the 67 stock could be used on Ryde-Shanklin services on the Isle of Wight. The 1938 stock currently used is becoming increasingly worn out and it's difficult to get spare parts for them.

However, this is just speculation; I've no idea what Stagecoach want to do with the line.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I'd have thought the 67 stock could be used on Ryde-Shanklin services on the Isle of Wight. The 1938 stock currently used is becoming increasingly worn out and it's difficult to get spare parts for them.

However, this is just speculation; I've no idea what Stagecoach want to do with the line.

Unlikely, they turned down the offer of getting the 59TS when the Northern Line got its new trains tho the salty air is playing havok with the 38's they use.

 

[Burkitt]

Unlikely, they turned down the offer of getting the 59TS when the Northern Line got its new trains tho the salty air is playing havok with the 38's they use.

That was over ten years ago though, and there was little difference between 38 and 59 stock anyway. But 67 stock has a much higher quality interior than the tired NSE refurbishment of the 38 stock, and the scrapped 67s would provide all the spares they could ever need.

 

[Mr Spock]

Two units, numbers 3012 and 3077, have been taken to Booths for scrapping already.

The latest position re the Bakerloo is to carry on with what they already have until it is their turn to receive replacemnets.

 

[Voyager 2093]

There was also a rumour that 1992 Stocks will be moving to the Bakerloo Line in the future but who knows.

 

[Helvellyn]

The Bakerloo uses 72 (mk II) stock. The Victoria Line stock is therefore older than what is in use on the Bakerloo, so why would the 72 stock be replaced with 67 stock? Some 72 (mk I) stock was modified for use on the Victoria Line, so it's possible some of those vehicles could move to the Bakerloo Line to provide additional stock and/or spares, especially as the 72 stock will be the last coach built Underground stock to be replaced - The 73 stock on the Piccadilly Line is the next tube stock up for replacement after the 67 stock.

If SWT wanted to replace the 38 stock on the Island Line, maybe they're holding out for some 73 stock. As they were refurbished to an even higher standard than the 67/72 stock they may be a better option. Plus they have cabside sliding doors - something the 67/72 stock does not have.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

There was also a rumour that 1992 Stocks will be moving to the Bakerloo Line in the future but who knows.

There's also the rumour TfL are looking at scrapping the 92TS and replacing them with with an off shoot of the Bakerloo stock.

The Bakerloo uses 72 (mk II) stock. The Victoria Line stock is therefore older than what is in use on the Bakerloo, so why would the 72 stock be replaced with 67 stock? Some 72 (mk I) stock was modified for use on the Victoria Line, so it's possible some of those vehicles could move to the Bakerloo Line to provide additional stock and/or spares, especially as the 72 stock will be the last coach built Underground stock to be replaced - The 73 stock on the Piccadilly Line is the next tube stock up for replacement after the 67 stock.

If SWT wanted to replace the 38 stock on the Island Line, maybe they're holding out for some 73 stock. As they were refurbished to an even higher standard than the 67/72 stock they may be a better option. Plus they have cabside sliding doors - something the 67/72 stock does not have.

They may have to wait sometime now for the 73TS.

 

[MCR247]

Why would they scrap the 92TS?

 

[Voyager 2093]

Why would they scrap the 92TS?

The reason they are looking to scrap the 1992 Stock is because they have a number of problems, such as opening doors when the train is running. I dont advise anyone to do this but when the train is running if you actually push the door hard enough or just are casually leaning against the door in a crouded carriage it can open which is very dangerous. There also alot of other technical problems especially when the trains are running on ATO which means the driver only controls the doors and nothing else so the train drives itself.

Regarding the TFLs plan to replace 1992 Stock mackenzie_blu, the plan was to replace 1992 stock with new stock around 2014 (I heard) and send them to the Bakerloo this is due to the fact the Bakerloo Line is the least used LUL Line so it has had 'hand me down' stock for years.

Regarding the Island Line wanting 1973 Stock they may not have to wait that much time, the current plan is to introduce new stock on to the piccadilly line around 2014, which is silly because the 1973 stock are in good condition.

Just like replacing the not long ago refurbished ( D Stock the last one being in 2008 ) with S Stock in 2013. But thats going off topic.

 

[MCR247]

especially when the trains are running on ATO which means the driver only controls the doors and nothing else so the train drives itself.

What?

 

[Voyager 2093]

The 1992 stock have capability to drive themselves with the driver operating the doors only. This is called ATO mode.

 

[MCR247]

The 1992 stock have capability to drive themselves with the driver operating the doors only. This is called ATO mode.

Yeah, I know that, but why would they want to scrap the 92TS because of ATO?

 

[Voyager 2093]

well not just because of ATO but it is one of the factors leading up to this possibility, as ATO causes some techinical problems. Im not really the man to explain this. However when I do find out information I will inform you guys.

 

[Daniel]

The reason they are looking to scrap the 1992 Stock is because they have a number of problems, such as opening doors when the train is running. I dont advise anyone to do this but when the train is running if you actually push the door hard enough or just are casually leaning against the door in a crouded carriage it can open which is very dangerous.

Which can happen to any train...

 

[Voyager 2093]

But this a problem being noted on the 1992 stock than any other LUL Train.

 

[Daniel]

But this a problem being noted on the 1992 stock than any other LUL Train.

...really? Where has that come from?

 

[jon0844]

If it was a problem when someone leans on the doors, I'd expect the doors to open quite frequently. Have you seen how crowded these trains can get between Bank/LST and Holborn? Even when the trains come along every 1-2 minutes, they still don't get any emptier in the evening peak Westbound.

 

[A60K]

The reason they are looking to scrap the 1992 Stock is because they have a number of problems, such as opening doors when the train is running. I dont advise anyone to do this but when the train is running if you actually push the door hard enough or just are casually leaning against the door in a crouded carriage it can open which is very dangerous. There also alot of other technical problems especially when the trains are running on ATO which means the driver only controls the doors and nothing else so the train drives itself.

As I understand it none of the things you mention are the reasons that early withdrawal of the 1992 stock has been discussed - structural issues with the body (note tape to stop water leaks on many cars) and motor/bogies troubles are the problems.

I don't think there is any significant problem with the doors - nor with the ATO equipment on the trains, which would in any case not require replacement of the trains, simply of the auto driving equipment as has been done on the 1967 stock on the Victoria line.

 

[Engineer EA]

The reason they are looking to scrap the 1992 Stock is because they have a number of problems, such as opening doors when the train is running. I dont advise anyone to do this but when the train is running if you actually push the door hard enough or just are casually leaning against the door in a crouded carriage it can open which is very dangerous.

Hi, you say the doors can open, but by how much? I'm sure if this was a proven safety hazard the trains would not be allowed to continue in service until the problem was fixed.

 

[Daniel]

If the train doors open (even if just a small distance), it causes a break in the train's safety circuit applying the emergency brakes immediately.

 

[jon0844]

If the doors actually were opening, at speed, someone would almost certainly have fallen out and likely died - so I don't think it can be happening very often (if at all).

Much more likely problems with the doors are causing the brakes to apply, causing delays.

Of course, ideally, the trains would never be as crowded as they are. To solve that, you either move people onto another form of transport, or run more trains - with the necessary changes to signalling to allow for trains running closer together.

All too often there are breaks in service that result in packed trains and a LONG time to clear the passengers, which introduces more problems (people blocking doors etc).

Is the Central Line running to full capacity? Is there any scope for further improvements?

 

[A60K]

If the doors actually were opening, at speed, someone would almost certainly have fallen out and likely died - so I don't think it can be happening very often (if at all).

Much more likely problems with the doors are causing the brakes to apply, causing delays.

Of course, ideally, the trains would never be as crowded as they are. To solve that, you either move people onto another form of transport, or run more trains - with the necessary changes to signalling to allow for trains running closer together.

All too often there are breaks in service that result in packed trains and a LONG time to clear the passengers, which introduces more problems (people blocking doors etc).

Is the Central Line running to full capacity? Is there any scope for further improvements?

Your point about problems with the doors causing the brakes to apply is essentially the correct interpretation. If a lot of pressure is put on the doors the interlocking which proves the doors are closed is broken, and traction power will be cut. Unlike as posted by jamaal, this doesn't mean the doors have opened, simply that the microswitch that detects the position of the doors has been triggered.

As far as capacity improvements go I think it's doubtful that much more can be done - for all its faults, the 1992 Stock does swallow as many passengers as quickly as you can reasonably expect. There is no significant spare 92 Stock available to strengthen the service, and I suspect the TPH figure is about as high as it can go without causing service degradation or being impossible to run a full service.

One thing that has been raised in the past as a possible was to transfer some other stock to the W&C and use their 92 Stock units to make three extra trains for the Central line, allowing a modest increase in service at the line extremities. That was some years ago though, and it's unlikely to happen.

The Central line's serious relief will come as a result of Crossrail, when (if) it opens.

 

[jon0844]

What about 'queue buster' trains to clear stations that are obviously too crowded - and take ages to clear? They'd run empty and begin part way along the line (or be turned around earlier).

I am not sure what stations make the train so full by, say, Chancery Lane - but if you skipped Liverpool Street and/or Bank and started the station after - you'd now be able to clear platforms quite quickly at stations where people, frankly, have almost no chance of boarding a train for 10-20 minutes unless they're very lucky.

 

[DavyCrocket]

What about 'queue buster' trains to clear stations that are obviously too crowded - and take ages to clear? They'd run empty and begin part way along the line (or be turned around earlier).

I am not sure what stations make the train so full by, say, Chancery Lane - but if you skipped Liverpool Street and/or Bank and started the station after - you'd now be able to clear platforms quite quickly at stations where people, frankly, have almost no chance of boarding a train for 10-20 minutes unless they're very lucky.

This is done at times for football traffic (for crowd control and to keep teams seperate), but you then know when they will arrive as they will have BTP escorts.

Ordinarily it is pointless, unless the train departs its first station empty due to the time needed to detrain the customers (Some times the ex Arnos trains run empty to Kings Cross when the Victoria is closed - thats every 20 minutes). That's about it.
You have to think;
If the train isn't full - There is space for more.
If the train is full - You'll crush load the train behind and increase the headway.