Virgin asking for all parts of split tickets to be shown

[A Challenge]

Right, but that still shouldn't automatically lead to a confrontation. Even if the guard thinks you've overtravelled, his initial approach to you should be polite, and when you show your subsequent ticket then there'd be no escalation.

I meant on the side of the passenger getting aggressive at the guard.

 

[mallard]

The biggest problem with showing all tickets for a split-ticket journey is that the staff member may mark tickets before they're used and a crew change may occur, causing awkward questions about why a ticket that's already been marked is being used...

I've experienced this and it's the main reason why my personal policy is only to show the "current" ticket unless I'm specifically asked to show others (obviously with the exception that I'll show multiple tickets if I'm relying on S14.2 and I'm switching tickets before the next station call).

 

[221129]

When I was checking tickets on a route that saw a lot of common splits, I would ask to see all tickets up until the point I get off. It means I know that the passenger isn't just doing a short hop in the event of disruption, and it means I don't have to keep bothering the passenger every 10mins to see the next ticket.

 

[sprunt]

I meant on the side of the passenger getting aggressive at the guard.

But again, why would the passenger get aggressive rather than just show the ticket they now have that is valid for this part of the journey? And again, if your answer to this is "They might be over-travelling." that's a different situation from the one being discussed in this thread.

 

[A Challenge]

But again, why would the passenger get aggressive rather than just show the ticket they now have that is valid for this part of the journey? And again, if your answer to this is "They might be over-travelling." that's a different situation from the one being discussed in this thread.

My point was that those who are over-travelling might get agresive, yes. But what I meant was a question of how a guard meant to tell the difference between an over-traveller and a split-ticketer before asking for the second ticket?

 

[sprunt]

My point was that those who are over-travelling might get agresive, yes. But what I meant was a question of how a guard meant to tell the difference between an over-traveller and a split-ticketer before asking for the second ticket?

They aren't. Why should they be? They will find out which they are after asking for the second ticket, in exactly the same way that they tell fare-payers from fare-dodgers by asking for their ticket. It isn't an issue.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Not showing all tickets for the train that you're on just seems being overly petty to me

 

[sefton]

Not showing all tickets for the train that you're on just seems being overly petty to me

Depends on the customer's previous experience with railway staff.

If they have encountered one of the far too many poorly trained staff who don't know what they are doing and won't admit when they don't know so just make things up, then it is quite sensible for the customer to avoid the possibility of stupid behavior from the rail staff and simply hand over the one ticket for the part of the journey they are actually making at that moment.

Now if all staff were properly trained and those who failed to demonstrate an acceptable level of skill and knowledge were removed from operational activity, so the request for all tickets was to be helpful and ensure the customer did actually have a set of tickets for the whole journey they were making, then that would be a different story. But let's face it, that is never going to happen.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

Generally I only show the relevant ticket at the time. Seems much simpler, especially when I know there is a crew change, but otherwise I assume that I do not necessarily know that I understand the crew changes correctly.

A conductor once specifically asked me if I had another ticket so I showed it to her. I do not know whether I would always do so, just in case a sudden whim to get out at the next break occurred. In reality the presence of tickets for other journeys, even if they dovetail the current one, is not something that strictly concerns the conductor, so they can ask all they like, but not compel.

This policy of providing minimum information did recently save me from paying again on a split journey where as the TM approached I realised that I had carelessly booked a day return get into my stack of period returns. As I held same out to the Train Manager he ignored it, presumably thinking he had already seen it, or getting tired of our stack of tickets. However, this is not something to do regularly. Before anyone gets too wound up about fraud I will say that the price was exactly the same and the CDR had been used exactly as the SVR, so I feel justified in not leaping up and pleading for mercy but allowing time to think about it. This sort of problem would not arise if the rules allowed train companies only to sell the full range of tickets from the point a passenger first encounters a member of staff, which would also have the benefit of improving the passenger experience by making TOCs turn their attention to employing customer service staff rather than policemen.

 

[Scotty]

Not showing all tickets for the train that you're on just seems being overly petty to me

If I get on at station A and the guard asks for "tickets from A", why is it petty to only show the ticket from A?

When I'm splitting, I'll show the ticket I'm using to travel at that moment in time. On request, further into my journey, I'll show the others...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I get on at station A and the guard asks for "tickets from A", why is it petty to only show the ticket from A?

When I'm splitting, I'll show the ticket I'm using to travel at that moment in time. On request, further into my journey, I'll show the others...

"Tickets from A" is just shorthand for "Can the people who joined the train at A please show their tickets?"

 

[Scotty]

"Tickets from A" is just shorthand for "Can the people who joined the train at A please show their tickets?"

Maybe so, but if the guard is asking for a ticket that is valid for me to join the service, then I'll provide exactly that...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe so, but if the guard is asking for a ticket that is valid for me to join the service, then I'll provide exactly that...

Whereas personally, not liking to be awkward for being awkward's sake, I prefer to provide all the tickets covering my intended journey on that train.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Whereas personally, not liking to be awkward for being awkward's sake, I prefer to provide all the tickets covering my intended journey on that train.

Exactly. It's being awkward for the sake of it, feeling like they're one-upping their guard for absolutely no reason. It's far more likely to create confrontation (which no doubt they'll be on here to whine, moan, cry and whinge about) then just showing all tickets for the train that they're on.
I know some TMs who, if they know someone is splitting but hasn't shown all tickets, will wait for the most inconvenient time for the passenger to re-check. Be awkward with them, they'll be awkward with you.

 

[aye2beeviasea]

Why is it being awkward? How is the guard's job made any more difficult?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Why is it being awkward? How is the guard's job made any more difficult?

In what way is it not?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why is it being awkward? How is the guard's job made any more difficult?

Because they've got to check you several times rather than once.

 

[Scotty]

Because they've got to check you several times rather than once.

Generally, the guard doesn't check you again. The only time I usually get checked a second time on a train is when there is a crew change and ALL tickts are checked anyway.

 

[Saperstein]

I think It depends on the journey being made. What about a long journey on different trains?

I recently travelled from Brighton to Chester with spilts at London Victoria, Tube, Leighton Buzzard, change of train (but not ticket) at Milton Keynes Central and a split at Nuneaton (where I was supposed to move seats but didn’t as the carriage I got in was quiet and I found a unreserved seat throughout.)

Anyway that little lot meant six tickets in total. Was I supposed to show them all?

As it happened I never got challenged *once* throughout the whole journey and yet on a local TFW service yesterday a ticket check was undertaken immediately after departure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Obviously it only makes sense to show the ones that are relevant to your journey on that specific train (unless having a discussion regarding passenger rights, e.g. because of a likely missed onward connection). Nobody has any way to know that any others exist, and showing those is only likely to cause confusion.

 

[sheff1]

Not showing all tickets for the train that you're on just seems being overly petty to me

If I am travelling from Sheffield to Birmingham with a split at Derby and the ticket inspection is after Derby why is only showing the Derby - Birmingham ticket "being overly petty" ?

"Tickets from A" is just shorthand for "Can the people who joined the train at A please show their tickets?"

In the above situation I would take a request for "tickets from Derby" to be exactly that and would show my Derby - Birmingham ticket even though I had not joined the train there.

 

[yorkie]

Obviously it only makes sense to show the ones that are relevant to your journey on that specific train (unless having a discussion regarding passenger rights, e.g. because of a likely missed onward connection). Nobody has any way to know that any others exist, and showing those is only likely to cause confusion.

Agreed, unless you have a connection to make that you may require assistance or advice with (e.g. if a delay occurs).

However I might only show the ones that are relevant for that specific member of staff, e.g. I may only show tickets as far as Birmingham New Street for a through journey on XC, as I know the Guard will change from that point.

If a passenger held through tickets to somewhere like St Ives on an XC service to Plymouth, a passenger showing the entire combination of tickets in Yorkshire would probably be told the platforms of their onward trains at Plymouth and even at St Erth, if their Guard was the legendary Kevin Kramer (who provides outstanding customer service)

And he's not the only one; various others such as @gimmea50anyday, to name just one other example, also provide details of onward connections, including platform information (even stating the next train will be the same platform face, but further along the platform, as happens at stations like Manchester Airport where Northern trains reverse 'on top' of a TPE train which has terminated at the buffer stop end of the platform)

That said, if you don't need onward travel assistance/advice, then there is no particular need to show tickets for other train services than the one you are on at the current time.

And talking of delays and split tickets, it can be very useful having an itinerary (which could be shown on a phone or printed) showing your entire journey, detailing all trains and all tickets used for the journey, which you could generate yourself but will be generated automatically if using an accredited ticket splitting website. This is particularly useful when seeking advice regarding missed connections as well as when making applications for Delay Repay.