Virgin Customer Relations

[RJ]

I assume the issue in question was the one outlined by the OP in this post.

Fair enough. If I was using that ticket, I would expect there to be problems on the basis that there is no Maltese Cross and there are XC services available which staff would expect you to use. If I knew that the validity was riding on a paragraph buried in the NRG which contradicts the standard ticketing arrangements for travel via London, I'd be no less than fully prepared for the eventuality that there would be conflict.

In my case, I foresee potential issues and one method of me protecting myself is deliberately using trains that don't stop anywhere between London and Leicester. Staff have tried (and failed!) to get me off trains when incorrectly assuming my tickets aren't valid and seeing that I'm not willing to pay for a new ticket.

On that basis, I can understand why VT were reluctant to address the OP's complaint. I would have reservations about pursuing the matter further, as it may only encourage VT to try and close the 'loophole.'

Indeed. A glaring benefit is that it's a way to circumvent the evening peak restrictions at Euston, whist still saving on the price of a SVR between London and Manchester. There is also a massive disparity between the prices of their respective SOS' and SORs. It's my personal policy never to complain to TOCs about staff needing training on tickets like this. I only complain if I've lost money or there were other issues that needed addressing. Even then, I don't make a big deal of the actual tickets used.

I see nothing has been learned from my experiences with EMT - in my case, they sent out a brief to staff stating that the ticketing arrangements I used would soon be invalidated, but they should accept my tickets for the meantime. They have actively sought to shut loopholes after I brought them to their attention. In my case, I was forced to because I had hundreds of pounds of UFNs stacking up against me, with the IAS failing to understand the NRCoC's relevance to ticket validities. In this case, it seems to be a mere matter of principle, which for the purpose of being smart in exploiting anomalies, I disagree with. You exploit an anomaly. You get your money back - well done. Then you launch a public protest against the TOC. The TOC is not going to take briefing the staff as the priority. They will be more concerned with closing down a loophole which could potentially deprive them of significant amounts of money. This protest doesn't seem awfully shrewd to me, but then that's just my opinion as someone who makes use of creative ticketing. I actually laud the OP for not elucidating on the ticket details in this thread, but it didn't take much detective work for someone to find them!

 

[All Line Rover]

Indeed. A glaring benefit is that it's a way to circumvent the evening peak restrictions at Euston, whist still saving on the price of a SVR between London and Manchester. There is also a massive disparity between the prices of their respective SOS' and SORs. It's my personal policy never to complain to TOCs about staff needing training on tickets like this. I only complain if I've lost money or there were other issues that needed addressing. Even then, I don't make a big deal of the actual tickets used.

The impression given is that the OP has not lost any money (indeed, has even made a profit), so I fail to understand the reason behind the OP's complaint in this particular instance.

If cjohnson's assumption is correct, and VT were indeed to satisfy the OP's request by "address[ing] the underlying cause of [the] complaint," it would simply result in a response of: "Yes, we were wrong. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused and we hope you are satisfied with the RTV refund we have offered. Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and we hope to have this flow rectified as soon as possible."

I would be VERY surprised is the OP received a response of: "Yes, we were wrong. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused and we hope you are satisfied with the RTV refund we have offered. We will promptly brief all of our staff about the validity of this ticket via London, including in the evening peak, to ensure that you and any other users of this ticket experience no hassle in future."

This is slightly off topic but I have to say that this is the only instance of XC's ticketing system working in the passenger's favour. Despite any detrimental impact on VT, it would be highly unfair to restrict this ticket's validity via London as it is a reasonable route that has always, as far as I am aware, been permitted. The only changes in recent years being VT hiking their 'Anytime' ticket prices and introducing draconian restrictions on their regulated 'Off-Peak' tickets.

 

[RJ]

This is slightly off topic but I have to say that this is the only instance of XC's ticketing system working in the passenger's favour. Despite any detrimental impact on VT, it would be highly unfair to restrict this ticket's validity via London as it is a reasonable route that has always, as far as I am aware, been permitted. The only changes in recent years being VT hiking their 'Anytime' ticket prices and introducing draconian restrictions on their regulated 'Off-Peak' tickets.

There are still a few such gems in the system for people to find. For example, Off Peak fares between certain North/East London Line stations and the Derby cluster routed via Peterborough are priced at just over £50. Until the last fare change, those SV tickets were completely without any time restrictions after 04:30 in the morning. Significantly cheaper than East Coast's Anytime fares between London and Grantham, or even those from London to Nottingham via Grantham.

There are more things like this following similar types of themes which I make use of or will undoubtedly make use of at some point in the future. However, there is very little point in bringing it to the attention of the TOCs. They'd just say "thanks for letting us know" and have it corrected as soon as possible. I've had this myself, but not before having saved thousands of pounds against the price of Anytime fares. Unfortunately there does seem to be a concentration of people on here who seem to love being the one to be seen publishing the details of things like this, which does nothing other than getting these tickets invalidated quicker than is necessary!

 

[Skie]

Sorry for the bump, but I've just received exactly the same letter after claiming compensation after the Euston/Aspley disruption on the 29th of October.

They sent £50 worth of vouchers with the generic letter despite the value of the tickets they were sent having been over £600 (6 people travelling on peak Advances, all delayed much more than 2 hours).

It's pathetic that they will take 2 weeks to respond and say they aren't going to address the specifics so they can respond quickly, but here is a small amount in the hope that you dont pester us. Having 'experienced' Virgin in other sectors before, I'm just surprised they didn't use an Indian call centre to fob me off.

 

[RJ]

Sorry for the bump, but I've just received exactly the same letter after claiming compensation after the Euston/Aspley disruption on the 29th of October.

They sent £50 worth of vouchers with the generic letter despite the value of the tickets they were sent having been over £600 (6 people travelling on peak Advances, all delayed much more than 2 hours).

It's pathetic that they will take 2 weeks to respond and say they aren't going to address the specifics so they can respond quickly, but here is a small amount in the hope that you dont pester us. Having 'experienced' Virgin in other sectors before, I'm just surprised they didn't use an Indian call centre to fob me off.

Is that £50 more or less than what you are entitled to claim after being delayed with Advance tickets though? I was under the impression that compensation is not available with that ticket type, though I stand to be corrected.

Ultimately, the disruption wasn't their fault and they did get you to your destination as evidently you didn't take up the option of a full refund for abandoning the journey. Whilst it would be great to have a free ride every time something went wrong, you do have to put things into perspective when it comes to compensation.

 

[island]

Virgin's compensation percentage is very low, but not that low. And I've never heard of a rule saying advances don't qualify for compensation, where's that coming from?

 

[transmanche]

Is that £50 more or less than what you are entitled to claim after being delayed with Advance tickets though? I was under the impression that compensation is not available with that ticket type, though I stand to be corrected.

Virgin's Passenger Charter says there's a 100% refund for delays over two hours - which applies to all ticket types.

 

[RJ]

Virgin's compensation percentage is very low, but not that low. And I've never heard of a rule saying advances don't qualify for compensation, where's that coming from?

I must have gotten that confused with refunds!

Virgin's Passenger Charter says there's a 100% refund for delays over two hours - which applies to all ticket types.

I stand corrected.

 

[pjnathanail]

I have also just recieved £50 vouchers after complaining about the atrocious state of their FC lounges-not only were they understocked, the coffee machines were disgustingly unhygenic! The vouchers are welcome but I am a little concerned that they dont appear to be doing anything.

 

[Skie]

If all they are doing is taking complaint letters and sending £50 out without reading or acting on them then it sounds like it would be ripe for abuse. I've contacted them about my claim so it will be interesting to see what they come back with.

 

[Butts]

I have also just recieved £50 vouchers after complaining about the atrocious state of their FC lounges-not only were they understocked, the coffee machines were disgustingly unhygenic! The vouchers are welcome but I am a little concerned that they dont appear to be doing anything.

Which Lounge were you complaining about - Euston I suppose ?

£50 of vouchers for that - my letters in the post

 

[bb21]

Which Lounge were you complaining about - Euston I suppose ?

£50 of vouchers for that - my letters in the post

Virgin do seem to either be inundated with complaints or not bothered with replying properly, as this has happened twice to me with simple delay compensation applications in the last few weeks. (Not that I am complaining, as both of my compensation requests are for a total sum of under £10.)

I can see this being abused if they do not sort it out.

 

[jon0844]

Virgin Atlantic did (does?) the same, giving loads of Virgin miles seemingly for writing anything to them! Quite a lot too.

 

[RJ]

I can see this being abused if they do not sort it out.

I think that ship has well and truly sailed!

 

[pjnathanail]

Which Lounge were you complaining about - Euston I suppose ?

£50 of vouchers for that - my letters in the post

Bimingham International actually-there was no food anywhere, the place was filthy and the coffee machine drip tray was overflowing with stale coffee. I also challenged their policy on no under 16s in the lounge at New Street!

 

[jon0844]

In this day and age, people are more likely going to want compensation and will be happy when they get vouchers - thus it's considered good customer service.

I'm possibly mad in that I don't want free money (besides any actual loss to myself) and would rather see the problem addressed.

If the lounge was filthy, I'd want a letter apologising and explaining what is going to be done to stop it happening again... not a few quid to be quiet and then have to endure the same thing in the future.

Obviously that's not everyones idea of good customer service!

 

[pjnathanail]

In this day and age, people are more likely going to want compensation and will be happy when they get vouchers - thus it's considered good customer service.

I'm possibly mad in that I don't want free money (besides any actual loss to myself) and would rather see the problem addressed.

If the lounge was filthy, I'd want a letter apologising and explaining what is going to be done to stop it happening again... not a few quid to be quiet and then have to endure the same thing in the future.

Obviously that's not everyones idea of good customer service!

True.
However, if I happen to encounter it again I will have no problem with sending in another complaint (I would point out I don't travel that way regularly!)