Virgin East Coast UFN

[JC1987]

This morning I spoke to a staff member from Leeds station and said l had misplaced my ticket, but had my seat reservation and proof of purchase. The staff memeber said that it would be fine if l had my proof of purchase and told me to speak to the train manager. I did as soon as l boarded and he told me to wait. He came back to me an hour later and then fined me. I didn't even get the chance to get off at Wakefield as l was still waiting for him to come back.

I did not try and travel without paying, my company paid for the ticket, and l sought advice from Virgin before l realised l was in trouble. I feel incredibly let down by Virgin.

I spoke to one of the team leaders at Leeds train station this afternoon and even she said that it should have been fine and l must have got a grumpy manager. Virgin tell me l can't even have my unused ticket refunded, l have no idea where it is. Is there anything l can do? I wouldn't have got on the train if l didnt get those reassurances from the staff member.

 

[island]

Do you have proof that a staff member authorised you to board the train without a ticket?

 

[JC1987]

I dont think l could prove it no, l'm sure the CCTV will show her nodding her head and pointing to the train. I think it will ultimately be her word against mine and l'm sure l won't win that one

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure VTEC had a policy, once upon a time, of allowing passengers on Advance tickets to travel without ticket or reservation if they had a booking confirmation to back up that they were on the right train. I can't find any mention of it online however so it may well have changed.

I dont think l could prove it no, l'm sure the CCTV will show her nodding her head and pointing to the train.

Did you get a name? Could you give a description of the person? It is an awful lot easier to believe someone who says "I spoke with a lady called Joan who looked like she was in her early 30s, short with brown hair" than someone who goes "The lady on the platform said it would be okay".

Realistically I'm not sure there's that much you can do. At the end of the day you have to present a valid ticket and reservation coupon (when travelling on an Advance) and you were unable to do so. It may be best to pay the UFN and then complain via customer services and see what they may be willing to do.

 

[najaB]

He came back to me an hour later and then fined me.

If it's a UFN then in my opinion the best course of action is to pay it under protest. Write a short letter to customer services explaining exactly what happened, asking for the UFN to be put aside. Accompanied by a cheque for the full amount requested.

 

[Haywain]

On a VTEC train you will have received an Unpaid Fares Notice, not a fine.

 

[Haywain]

Did you get a name? Could you give a description of the person? It is an awful lot easier to believe someone who says "I spoke with a lady called Joan who looked like she was in her early 30s, short with brown hair" than someone who goes "The lady on the platform said it would be okay".

Leeds station is staffed principally by Northern, with the only VTEC staff being those in the information point to the side of the barrier line.

Question for the OP: how did you get through the barrier line without a ticket?

 

[JC1987]

Thanks for the responses. I got through the barrier when l approached a staff member saying my seat reservation (which l thought was my ticket) wasn't working. He pulled another ticket out of my stack and said l was using the wrong one. IT was then l realised something wasn't right.

Got a call from one of the customer service managers to say that the advice his staff gave me (that l could travel) was right, also that l should have been given a permission to travel slip. He also said the train managers get 5% commission from fines and he would have been trying to make money out of me.

I did get the name and a good description of the staff member who said l could travel, this is what l used to complain to customer services with.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Got a call from one of the customer service managers to say that the advice his staff gave me (that l could travel) was right, also that l should have been given a permission to travel slip. He also said the train managers get 5% commission from fines and he would have been trying to make money out of me.

I hope that you have the name of that Customer Service Manager along with the record of the call.

That response needs to be looked into urgently.

 

[Jonfun]

So if Northern are admitting their member of staff failed to issue an authority to travel, presumably Northern will be paying the UPFN? Or reimbursing the passenger if they pay it themselves.

 

[Haywain]

So if Northern are admitting their member of staff failed to issue an authority to travel, presumably Northern will be paying the UPFN? Or reimbursing the passenger if they pay it themselves.

As it is an Unpaid Fares Notice, and no fare is due, the notice should be cancelled. However, the OP might well need to write to the address on the UFN to "appeal" against its issue but I would hope that's been covered already.
Incidentally, train managers don't get commission from a UFN, only from ticket sales.

 

[bb21]

I hope that you have the name of that Customer Service Manager along with the record of the call.

That response needs to be looked into urgently.

Agreed. That is an extremely unprofessional conversation with a customer if true.

 

[bb21]

As it is an Unpaid Fares Notice, and no fare is due, the notice should be cancelled. However, the OP might well need to write to the address on the UFN to "appeal" against its issue but I would hope that's been covered already.
Incidentally, train managers don't get commission from a UFN, only from ticket sales.

I don't think the OP has yet clarified whether it was an Advance ticket or not.

 

[Jonfun]

As it is an Unpaid Fares Notice, and no fare is due, the notice should be cancelled. However, the OP might well need to write to the address on the UFN to "appeal" against its issue but I would hope that's been covered already.
Incidentally, train managers don't get commission from a UFN, only from ticket sales.

The UPFN was issued correctly by Virgin East Coast as the passenger did not have a valid ticket for their journey. Northern, by the sounds of things, have admitted their staff member failed to issue an Authority to Travel document and as such should be the ones paying the unpaid fare to Virgin East Coast. If VTEC cancel the UPFN then the unpaid fare will remain unpaid.

 

[AlterEgo]

The UPFN was issued correctly by Virgin East Coast as the passenger did not have a valid ticket for their journey. Northern, by the sounds of things, have admitted their staff member failed to issue an Authority to Travel document and as such should be the ones paying the unpaid fare to Virgin East Coast. If VTEC cancel the UPFN then the unpaid fare will remain unpaid.

Northern have no liability for the cost of a passenger’s fare. The passenger has no *right * to obtain an Authority to Travel in a situation where they have misplaced or otherwise don’t have part of their ticket.