Virgin rail vs lul staff pass pt 3

[MikeWh]

Following on from: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73743 created by ssray, I wonder if any further update is available. The reason I ask is that a thread posted today seems to include a link to a document which might back up the claim. It specifically mentions combining a TfL staff Oyster with a standard class season valid for use on Virgin trains allowing free travel between Euston and Watford Junction.

 

[ssray]

Thanks, post 1996 staff passes do not have the double arrow logo, so this wouldnot effect my case, thanks and i`m still trying to get this agreed
Thanks
Ray

 

[Hadders]

I was on a LM train from Euston to Northampton in Friday evenings peak when the guard queried the validity of my combination of tickets (7 day Stevenage - London Zones 1-6 travelcard and Hatch End - Northampton off peak day return). I stood my ground and eventually the guard agreed with me - all very civilised.

The person opposite me had a TFL Staff Oyster and a season ticket which was accepted by the guard. After the guard had moved on the person opposite said to me 'that guard needs retraining as your ticket is totally valid'. I asked him if he posted on the rail forum but he said he didn't

We then had a chat about the minutiae of ticket restrictions and I mentioned that there was a query on the forum a couple of years ago about Virgin's acceptance of season tickets combined with TFL staff travel passes. The person told me he'd got a letter from LM saying that the combination was valid.

So LM accept this combination, I see no reason why Virgin shouldn't.

 

[ssray]

I`m quite well know to Virgin staff, as i have worked at Euston since 2006 travelling from new street almost daily, I have if you read the rest of the thread been through everybody I can think of, but I still have to pay from new street to euston
Ray

 

[RJ]

Following on from: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73743 created by ssray, I wonder if any further update is available. The reason I ask is that a thread posted today seems to include a link to a document which might back up the claim. It specifically mentions combining a TfL staff Oyster with a standard class season valid for use on Virgin trains allowing free travel between Euston and Watford Junction.

I'm sure it's just a case of getting the right people at TfL to speak to the right people at Virgin to get this sorted. I'm a believer in six degrees of separation applying to finding the "right" person in a large organisation - it worked for a number of TfL related queries I had.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Validity of a combination of a TfL Staff Pass and a point-to-point season ticket on Virgin is dependent on two things, which nobody seems to be able to provide a definitive answer for:

1. Does a TfL Staff Pass count as a Season Ticket for the purposes of Condition 19(c) of the NRCoC?
2. Does Watford Junction being pick up only Northbound and set down only Southbound count as a station "call" for the purposes of Condition 19(b)?

If the answer to both of those is yes, then such a combination IS valid on Virgin, otherwise you have to use London Midland between Coventry/Rugby/Milton Keynes Central and Euston (depending on the VT calling pattern).

My own interpretation is that it does count as a Season, but that Watford Junction does not count as a station call, as a Single ticket from London to Watford Junction on its own would not be valid on a VT service that was pick up only at Watford Junction, nor would a Single from Watford Junction to London be valid on a service that was set down only at Watford Junction.

That you'll "get away" with same if there's no ticket check between Euston and Watford Junction doesn't affect the validity.

But we've had this argument several times before and still not managed to get a definitive answer, as all of the parties involved pass the buck to one of the others!

 

[Haywain]

I think in this case it is not clear that the staff pass is valid on Virgin Trains services to start with, and I am not convinced by the argument that such a pass has any status under the conditions of carriage even if it is considered valid. It is clear that a TfL pass WITH the double arrow can be used with a Watford Junction - Birmingham season because the ATOC document says exactly that.

 

[Deerfold]

I think in this case it is not clear that the staff pass is valid on Virgin Trains services to start with, and I am not convinced by the argument that such a pass has any status under the conditions of carriage even if it is considered valid. It is clear that a TfL pass WITH the double arrow can be used with a Watford Junction - Birmingham season because the ATOC document says exactly that.

Before the pick-up/set-down only restrictions were introduced they were valid on VT.