Virgin Reverse Formation

[palmersears]

I was on the 15:04 Stockport-Euston service today, which arrived with Standard class at the front, and First class at the rear. Does anybody know how/why it came to arrived like this? I also spotted it on the service that arrived in Stockport last at ~17:00, again heading for Euston.

 

[David10]

Virgin Trains can be turned when using alternative routes to access depots in Birmingham and Glasgow.

 

[Welshman]

When EC sets are running in reverse formation due to diversions, etc, they can be turned relatively easily in service on the Newcastle-Gateshead circle, or, if HSTs, by omitting Wakefield and running Doncaster-Leeds via the Hambleton link.

Is there anywhere between Euston-Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow, that pendolinos can be similarly turned relatively-easily whilst in service?

 

[table38]

390132 was round the wrong way last week.

I only noticed it when I got down to the far end at Piccadilly looking for Coach J and found Coach B instead...

 

[Searle]

I had this on the 09:53 from Milton Keynes Central to Manchester Piccadilly, on 9th August, it was 390132. Could still be running in reverse formation now, I can't think of anywhere where they can turn it

 

[martinsh]

When EC sets are running in reverse formation due to diversions, etc, they can be turned relatively easily in service on the Newcastle-Gateshead circle, or, if HSTs, by omitting Wakefield and running Doncaster-Leeds via the Hambleton link.

Is there anywhere between Euston-Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow, that pendolinos can be similarly turned relatively-easily whilst in service?

At Birmingham they could do, Stechford - Aston - Perry Barr - Soho - New Street (or in reverse).

 

[Welshman]

Thank-you.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is there anywhere between Euston-Birmingham/Manchester/Glasgow, that pendolinos can be similarly turned relatively-easily whilst in service?

From December, electric trains will be able to run Crewe-Warrington-Earlestown-Manchester (or vv) to arrive in reverse formation.

 

[Eagle]

That's assuming the Chat Moss actually gets cleared for 390s.

 

[The Planner]

It will be.

 

[driver9000]

It will be.

Presumably to allow them to reach Longsight under their own power without having to go via Crewe?

 

[Philip Elliott]

The route has been long cleared for 390s being hauled by 57s.

 

[voyagerdude220]

You could also turn Pendolinos/Super Voyagers on the triangle at Carstairs.

I've known VT to do this twice, recently, once with a Glasgow to Birmingham Super Voyager and once with a Glasgow to Euston Pendolino.

 

[Welshman]

From December, electric trains will be able to run Crewe-Warrington-Earlestown-Manchester (or vv) to arrive in reverse formation.

That's an interesting thought.

And although it would mean using the congested platforms 13 & 14 at Piccadilly, I wonder if VT is considering routing the occasional London-Manchester service that way, to give Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows a direct service to/from London?

 

[Eagle]

Highly unlikely. Virgin usually require a 20 minute or more turnaround and there's no way they'd be allowed to keep a Pendolino in platform 13 or 14 that long; it would block up half of Manchester's rail services.

Also why do Earlestown and Newton need London services? They're hardly major population centres, and completely not worth skipping Stockport and adding 15 minutes to the journey time for.

 

[bb21]

At Birmingham they could do, Stechford - Aston - Perry Barr - Soho - New Street (or in reverse).

Likewise, the train can be turned between New Street and Wolves by going via Aston, Perry Barr and Tame Bridge.

 

[Welshman]

A reply to Eagle's comment quoted again below:-

Yes, I take your point about only being able to stop in platforms 13/14 for a few minutes, although that could be less crucial if and when the additional platforms 15 & 16 are built.

I think at the back of my mind was a circular service - Euston-Earlestown/Newton-le-Willows-Piccadilly-Stockport-Euston - rather similar to the electric circle proposed a while ago for the EC trains at Leeds - [out via Wakefield, return via Hambleton and vv.]

I was only thinking of the occasional Euston-Manchester service going this way, thus not depriving Stockport too much as it normally has 3 trains per hour to/from Euston anyhow. Also, wasn't there talk of a parkway station in the vicinity of Newton-le-Willows, close to the M6/M56/M60 motorway junctions, or is this a figment of my imagination?

Highly unlikely. Virgin usually require a 20 minute or more turnaround and there's no way they'd be allowed to keep a Pendolino in platform 13 or 14 that long; it would block up half of Manchester's rail services.

Also why do Earlestown and Newton need London services? They're hardly major population centres, and completely not worth skipping Stockport and adding 15 minutes to the journey time for.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's an interesting thought.

And although it would mean using the congested platforms 13 & 14 at Piccadilly, I wonder if VT is considering routing the occasional London-Manchester service that way, to give Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows a direct service to/from London?

The platforms are much too short for Pendolinos (even the 9-car).

 

[Eagle]

Also, wasn't there talk of a parkway station in the vicinity of Newton-le-Willows, close to the M6/M56/M60 motorway junctions, or is this a figment of my imagination?

I think that was one of Alliance/GNWR's proposals (they also planned making King's Langley an intercity parkway, as it's right off the M25), although it would have been used by London to Blackpool services, not Manchester ones.