Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

[Rhydgaled]

I doubt you'll ever see 140mph running on the ECML as long as the eastern arm of HS2 is Government policy. With the regular non stop service to Newcastle from 2019 fastest journey times to Newcastle will fall to being only 15 minutes slower than the quoted HS2 journey time. Remember also that increasing speed disparities between services actually reduces capacity.

Personally I'd like to see linespeeds of 140mph between York and Northallerton, and preferably Darlington if you could remove some of the slow services north of Northallerton.
But I'm not hopeful because as I understand it, it requires significant infrastructure works and not just in cab signalling

I'm pretty sure that parts of the ECML (not sure which parts, maybe just Stoke Bank where the speed records have been set) were 140mph capable except for the signaling. I think there's even a 140mph linespeed board in the National Railway Museum.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Lets hope when Virgin / Stagecoach take over they re-train their customer service team.

East Coast seemed not to know which stations they ran, that concrete eyesore called Retford Low Level does belong to you.

 

[Nean]

I'm pretty sure that parts of the ECML (not sure which parts, maybe just Stoke Bank where the speed records have been set) were 140mph capable except for the signaling. I think there's even a 140mph linespeed board in the National Railway Museum.

The signalling at a couple of points was fitted for (at the time) 140mph with flashing green being used to indicate whether it was safe to go over 125mph.

If I recall correctly the flashing aspect still gets used but is not allowed to be acted on (I think it just provides the driver with knowledge that he has an additional block in front of him as opposed to running on steady greens).

I'm hoping that when they get around to cab signalling the mainlines they are able to raise the limit on that stretch at least, it's just a shame that it probably won't be with IC225s

 

[Rhydgaled]

I'm hoping that when they get around to cab signalling the mainlines they are able to raise the limit on that stretch at least, it's just a shame that it probably won't be with IC225s

I hope the new franchise do retain some IC225s (haven't read the article yet, but there's a hint in Modern Railways that they might), including the class 91s (please no replacing them with ugly boxy new locos).

 

[Aictos]

The signalling at a couple of points was fitted for (at the time) 140mph with flashing green being used to indicate whether it was safe to go over 125mph.

If I recall correctly the flashing aspect still gets used but is not allowed to be acted on (I think it just provides the driver with knowledge that he has an additional block in front of him as opposed to running on steady greens).

I'm hoping that when they get around to cab signalling the mainlines they are able to raise the limit on that stretch at least, it's just a shame that it probably won't be with IC225s

The flashing green aspect as I recall was simply for drivers to treat it as a standard green aspect, however you're quite right it was used to indicate to test trains they could exceed 125mph and run up to 140mph.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned.
Rail Magazine issue 764 says:

Transport Minister Claire Perry wrote that a ''marginal'' reduction of North East services will take place in the next East Coast franchise.

''These are typically a reduction of one daily call only, in one direction, and include Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick, Dunbar and Darlington'' she said.

Not exactly a massive improvement is it?

 

[al.currie93]

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned.
Rail Magazine issue 764 says:

Transport Minister Claire Perry wrote that a ''marginal'' reduction of North East services will take place in the next East Coast franchise.

''These are typically a reduction of one daily call only, in one direction, and include Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick, Dunbar and Darlington'' she said.

Not exactly a massive improvement is it?

No comment...

 

[ainsworth74]

Hmm I suspect that Darlington is going to lose it's Highland Chieftain calls. Which we've only had since May 2011 so no major loss. Still, yet again, the North East wins out once again! :roll:

 

[Suraggu]

Hmm I suspect that Darlington is going to lose it's Highland Chieftain calls. Which we've only had since May 2011 so no major loss. Still, yet again, the North East wins out once again! :roll:

From 2020 'The Northern Lights' will call at Durham to pick up and set down. It would seem odd to omit 'The Highland Chieftain' from Darlington but put in a Stop for Durham on The Aberdeen services.

 

[johnnychips]

With due respect to Darlington residents, it has always surprised me that almost every EC train stops there. Is it because of its population, or good connections to other settlements?

 

[Aictos]

Hmm I suspect that Darlington is going to lose it's Highland Chieftain calls. Which we've only had since May 2011 so no major loss. Still, yet again, the North East wins out once again! :roll:

Peterborough used to have direct stops on the Aberdeens and Inverness service until Project Eureka came in and they made them non stop between London and York, hence in my view said project has been nothing more then a disaster!

As to Darlington being removed from the Inverness service, as Peterborough has already lost its stop on that service then does it matter if Darlington also loses out?

Knowing DfT and EC, I guess the future calling pattern will be London, Newcastle then Edinburgh followed by the Highland Mainland stations but that's me being totally cynical for once, obviously spending too much time around certain forum members...

 

[Suraggu]

With due respect to Darlington residents, it has always surprised me that almost every EC train stops there. Is it because of its population, or good connections to other settlements?

It's a bit of both, it is a big connecting station for teeside and the Durham coast and also it has a sizeable population.
I wouldn't be surprised when the Middlesbrough -KGX services start their will be less AngloScot services calling at the station.

 

[Stats]

Peterborough used to have direct stops on the Aberdeens and Inverness service until Project Eureka came in and they made them non stop between London and York, hence in my view said project has been nothing more then a disaster!

As to Darlington being removed from the Inverness service, as Peterborough has already lost its stop on that service then does it matter if Darlington also loses out?

Knowing DfT and EC, I guess the future calling pattern will be London, Newcastle then Edinburgh followed by the Highland Mainland stations but that's me being totally cynical for once, obviously spending too much time around certain forum members...

From May 2020 Aberdeen and Inverness services are planned to call additionally at Peterborough, Doncaster and Durham

 

[Class 170101]

I can understand Peterborough and Doncaster but why Durham. Darlington is more important than Durham.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I can understand Peterborough and Doncaster but why Durham. Darlington is more important than Durham.

I agree. Darlington is a better town and has historic importance for railways. It is also Teesside Junction in effect.
Durham is a small place for tourists and students more than anything else. It does serve places like Washington though.

 

[Aictos]

From May 2020 Aberdeen and Inverness services are planned to call additionally at Peterborough, Doncaster and Durham

That's good, the removal of the Peterborough and Doncaster stops shouldn't have been removed in the first place though.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Any chance of moving the 'Northern Lights' out of the 10am Kings Cross slot and reintroducing the 'Flying Scotsman' name to a northbound service leaving Kings Cross at 10am bound for Edinburgh?

I suppose the idea in the Eureka timetable of advancing the southbound 'Flying Scotman' to an earlier time and accelerating the schedule might not have been a bad idea, but I was disapointed at the scrapping of the famous 10am northbound 'Flying Scotman'. The northbound needn't be a 4hr flyer like the southbound, the current non-stop to York on the 10am isn't bad.

 

[Suraggu]

Any chance of moving the 'Northern Lights' out of the 10am Kings Cross slot and reintroducing the 'Flying Scotsman' name to a northbound service leaving Kings Cross at 10am bound for Edinburgh?

I suppose the idea in the Eureka timetable of advancing the southbound 'Flying Scotman' to an earlier time and accelerating the schedule might not have been a bad idea, but I was disapointed at the scrapping of the famous 10am northbound 'Flying Scotman'. The northbound needn't be a 4hr flyer like the southbound, the current non-stop to York on the 10am isn't bad.

Highly unlikely, very much doubt it will happen post IEP as well.
1000 KGX -ABD forms 1E30 1818 ABD -LDS which is a popular service. Also VTEC gave to keep the current timetable as a minimum specification as part of the Franchise.

 

[Rhydgaled]

1000 KGX -ABD forms 1E30 1818 ABD -LDS which is a popular service. Also VTEC gave to keep the current timetable as a minimum specification as part of the Franchise.

Wasn't suggesting scrappping the Northern Lights, just moving the northbound working to a different departure slot, perhaps 30mins earlier or later. If later, I suppose that could have knock-on effects on the timing of the 18:18 ABD -LDS, but possibly not by much.

 

[Chrism20]

Wasn't suggesting scrappping the Northern Lights, just moving the northbound working to a different departure slot, perhaps 30mins earlier or later. If later, I suppose that could have knock-on effects on the timing of the 18:18 ABD -LDS, but possibly not by much.

The inbound has a decent layover in Aberdeen that could be reduced BUT it is regularly pulled off the platform for refuelling/cleaning and ad-hoc maintenance and IIRC the arrival into Leeds is about 0100 as it is. Making it an earlier departure from the cross would then mean the inbound service from somewhere else (is it Hull the NB NL comes from?) would also need to run earlier which would screw up crewing. If it was a 91 running it it could possibly be easier to do but at that time the SB HSTs from Yorkshire have mostly just arrived, there are three on their way from the first wave out of Edinburgh and one is on its way from Leeds to Aberdeen which forms the 1452 Aberdeen to the Cross and three others also enroute from Aberdeen (2) and Inverness (1)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Virgin aren't keen on train names.
They have all gone from ICWC, the last one I think being the Irish Mail at the time of its 150-year anniversary.
Not that it carried any mail in its latter years.
I don't think Pendolinos have ever carried timetabled train names.
They do name train sets though. Will IEP sets be named?
Plenty of scope for "City of ..." on ICEC.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Surely The Flying Scotsman will be kept.
Remember it's Stagecoach so the Midland mainline might be a better example of how it'll run. The Master Cutler still runs on that line despite it historically being an East Coast service.

 

[alastair]

Surely The Flying Scotsman will be kept.
Remember it's Stagecoach so the Midland mainline might be a better example of how it'll run. The Master Cutler still runs on that line despite it historically being an East Coast service.

I think the Master Cutler was only an East Coast service from 1958 to 1967. It ran on the Great Central line before 1958 and,as you say,on the Midland line from 1968 onwards.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Just a thought..
With EGIP could a VEC extended service starting at Glasgow Queen Street stopping at Edinburgh & Newcastle only to the cross compete with a VWC service from Central to Euston in timings?

 

[Chrism20]

Just a thought..
With EGIP could a VEC extended service starting at Glasgow Queen Street stopping at Edinburgh & Newcastle only to the cross compete with a VWC service from Central to Euston in timings?

Very doubtful tbh unless they used a five car IEP, IIRC the longest platform at the rebuilt Queen Street will be capable of holding eight cars which will be required for the Edinburgh - Glasgow services, particularly at peak times.

 

[najaB]

Just a thought..
With EGIP could a VEC extended service starting at Glasgow Queen Street stopping at Edinburgh & Newcastle only to the cross compete with a VWC service from Central to Euston in timings?

Why Queen Street? They will already have a couple of services to/from Central.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very doubtful tbh unless they used a five car IEP, IIRC the longest platform at the rebuilt Queen Street will be capable of holding eight cars which will be required for the Edinburgh - Glasgow services, particularly at peak times.

If run from Queen Street, this service could replace one Edinburgh-Glasgow return working.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Why Queen Street? They will already have a couple of services to/from Central.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If run from Queen Street, this service could replace one Edinburgh-Glasgow return working.

Would be quicker from Queen Street I would have thought?
Quickest Scotrail service will be around 48 mins so a non stop IEP on this line instead of Central via Carstairs

 

[Suraggu]

It will never happen its not in the bid. Lets leave Edinburgh -Glasgow non stop for Scotrail and let VTEC run the ECML.

 

[SkinnyDave]

It will never happen its not in the bid. Lets leave Edinburgh -Glasgow non stop for Scotrail and let VTEC run the ECML.

Understand it's not in the bid but asking if its feasible and if it would be competitive v the WCML service timings.

Pointless having the existing Central service going forward with XC doing most of that work

 

[Chrism20]

It will never happen its not in the bid.

Agreed.

There are apparently works to be done at Carstairs with junctions this year as well which should hopefully bring journey times of the EC/XC/SR services which run that way down anyway. The difference between the two routes is only ten/fifteen minutes anyway so there is very little to be gained.