Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[pt_mad]

I do think it may be the time that the Virgin brand goes all together from the railway network and give someone else the chance to bring some new ideas to the West Coast in the next franchise for that route.

It will do (go) because the next West Coast Franchise has to use a long term generic brand name that can be passed on. Such as LMS etc etc.

 

[pt_mad]

Well I'm sure you know the alternatives for WCP are First/Trenitalia and MTR/Guangshen, so their branding is highly unpredictable.
Brands have a value, as customers of Clydesdale and Yorkshire banks will find when they are rebranded Virgin Money.

But the Virgin brand won't have any value on the railway. As all franchises up for tender now seem to be specifying that generic long term brand names are used that will need to be passed on to the next operator. Such as East Midlands Railway which is to be the name for the East Mids according to the ITT regardless of who takes it. And the WCP is to have a generic name. So the DFT doesn't seem to want the value that the Virgin name brings.

So although their West Coast customers don't realise it yet, we are seemingly now within the last 18 months of the brand Virgin Trains being in existence in the UK.

 

[43096]

I think LNER was a suitable name because of the history of it. If the name didn't have history I'd have hoped for something more inclusive as Scotland isn't mentioned.

I think the use of LNER is actually pretty weak. It strikes me as they are having to hark back to some supposedly glorious by-gone era in the (vain?) hope that some of the image will transfer onto the current and paper over the cracks. See also GWR as the obvious example of this.

 

[All Line Rover]

It will do (go) because the next West Coast Franchise has to use a long term generic brand name that can be passed on. Such as LMS etc etc.

The 'Virgin Trains' brand will go, but 'West Coast Trains, by Virgin' would be fine.

 

[SaveECRewards]

The 'Virgin Trains' brand will go, but 'West Coast Trains, by Virgin' would be fine.

I can't see Virgin having any interest in that. I suspect Virgin will disappear as one of the partners in the Stagecoach consortium if it is certain they can't retain their brand.

 

[GrimShady]

Yup. West Coast are awful too - the talking toilets are utterly ridiculous. And no, I don't fly with them, and I don't own a phone with them either. Their marketing and comms are so annoying that I will go to great lengths to avoid them.

Agreed!

 

[DenmarkRail]

It will do (go) because the next West Coast Franchise has to use a long term generic brand name that can be passed on. Such as LMS etc etc.

As many times I have stated, it has been shared before by people at VTWC, that they have no plans to discontinue the Virgin brand if they win in 2019... They were asked in 2015 to brand VTEC as LNER, and they declined. I expect they'll do the same with VTWC. I expect it'll be Virgin Trains, or no bid.

As well as that, Virgin West Coast are potentially the best operator on the network, with some great innovations. It strikes me, that a number of people who comment here, possibly used them only once or twice, so won't be able to make a balanced judgement... I'm fully supporting Virgin Trains West Coast in 2019. The failures of EC, shouldn't let WC down.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

East Midlands Railway which is to be the name for the East Mids according to the ITT regardless of who takes it.

So I take it Southeastern will become South Eastern Railway that if Stagecoach gets the SE franchise then they wouldn't be permitted to name it as "South East Trains"?

Arriva Northern has been running for 2 years, this could have become Northern Railway but that didn't happen, will Northern be pushed to rebrand soon? Possible future TOC names could include "Transpennine Express Railway", "Crosscountry Railway" and "Greater Anglia Railway" that with Railway included can be longwinded and bit of a mouthful like LNR and LNER!

 

[DenmarkRail]

So I take it Southeastern will become South Eastern Railway that if Stagecoach gets the SE franchise then they wouldn't be permitted to name it as "South East Trains"?

Arriva Northern has been running for 2 years, this could have become Northern Railway but that didn't happen, will Northern be pushed to rebrand soon? Possible future TOC names could include "Transpennine Express Railway", "Crosscountry Railway" and "Greater Anglia Railway" that with Railway included can be longwinded and bit of a mouthful like LNR and LNER!

From what I have seen of the various agreements (albeit, very few) the DfT can request an operator brands in a certain way, but cannot force an operator. Many operators go with this to avoid brand damage. VTEC was asked to brand as LNER, but they declined (back in 2015). While I am sure the DfT would like to do it this way, based on current (current, not future) no operator is required to brand in a certain way.

Further more, it is just like how Virgin West Coast is really called West Coast Trains Limited... The DfT may require a company to be called that, but how the company brands it, is at they're own discretion

 

[westv]

Received an email from VTEC asking me to click "yes" so that LNER can contact me for marketing.
The link works but the web page that comes up just produces an error when clicking on it to confirm.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From what I have seen of the various agreements (albeit, very few) the DfT can request an operator brands in a certain way, but cannot force an operator. Many operators go with this to avoid brand damage. VTEC was asked to brand as LNER, but they declined (back in 2015). While I am sure the DfT would like to do it this way, based on current (current, not future) no operator is required to brand in a certain way.
Further more, it is just like how Virgin West Coast is really called West Coast Trains Limited... The DfT may require a company to be called that, but how the company brands it, is at they're own discretion

The underlying DfT company that operates as LNER is actually called East Coast Mainline Company Ltd, as it was under VTEC.
This is the company that owns all the franchise staff and assets, and all the subsidiary contracts.
Changing ownership or branding doesn't change any of this.

 

[Hadders]

East Coast Mainline Company was the company set up by DOR to operate East Coast following the collapse of NXEC.

Stagecoach/Virgin Set up a company called Inter City Railways which purchased the share capital of East Coast Mainline from DOR. This was different to how normal franchise changes take place.

I’m assuming that East Coast Mainline Comoany will be acquired by the OLR, rather than setting up a new company to which everyone has to transfer.

Does anyone know the exact position.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Received an email from VTEC asking me to click "yes" so that LNER can contact me for marketing.
The link works but the web page that comes up just produces an error when clicking on it to confirm.

Same for me. Hopefully Wallsendmag spots these posts and can take a look into this

 

[pt_mad]

The 'Virgin Trains' brand will go, but 'West Coast Trains, by Virgin' would be fine.

More likely be LMS, by Virgin Trains. Somehow that doesn't quite work.
I say that because another poster said in a previous post somewhere that they had information that the DFT has licenced the name LMS for future use. So could be a fair old bet. Cant see VT liking LMS by VT if that turns out to be the case.

 

[Rail Blues]

Well... crappy marketing continues I see...
View attachment 48573

Looks like the handiwork of a talentless LWNKR

 

[Rail Blues]

The how often do they fail to hit the mark was me referring to the number of ad campaigns they had to change last year. Spandau v Speedcore became Spandau v Thrash Metal when it was pointed out that associating your competitors with speed probably wasn't the desired outcome. They changed a lot of wording on their posters too.

Yes, however this got approved needs a wake up call. Hopefully their pr and marketing teams gets a sharp reminder that they are adults, as are their potential customers and to start acting accordingly. The wacky uncle at a barbecue routine is wearing in the extreme, I am in my mid to late 30s and am fairly relaxed and easygoing: happy to be called by my first name rather than Dr by my students and am generally not a stickler for formality either at work or in my interactions with companies or organisations, outside it, but I really don't appreciate the faux mateyness of the virgin brand. I don't undertake leisure travel with Vtec due to Souter's repugnant views, but if I have to use virgin for work, all I want is to get to my destination on time in a clean and comfortable train, I don't need brash and gaudy marketing. Plus, if I have occasion to use the toilet, I would like to do so in silence please.

 

[91109]

The posters were something the transition team came up with and weren't passed by the brand team. From what I gather they won't be staying up long.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Same for me. Hopefully Wallsendmag spots these posts and can take a look into this

Not my area but I'll pass it on.

 

[Gadget88]

It seems a waste this rebranding when in what two years it will again be rebranded?

 

[DanNCL]

It seems a waste this rebranding when in what two years it will again be rebranded?

The plan is iirc to keep the LNER brand with the new franchise from 2020, so this should be the last rebranding on the ECML franchise for many years.

 

[Gadget88]

The plan is iirc to keep the LNER brand with the new franchise from 2020, so this should be the last rebranding on the ECML franchise for many years.

What if Virgin bid?

 

[DanNCL]

What if Virgin bid?

Unlikely considering the messup that VTEC made, but it can't be ruled out. Considering they got their numbers wrong last time, I think the DFT would be very silly to take the risk that exactly the same company will do exactly the same again...

If the DFT stipulate the LNER brand in the ITT for the new franchise, Virgin would almost certainly not bid, as they like plastering their name on as many things as possible. Stagecoach bidding on their own or with SNCF like on the West Coast is much more likely I think than a Stagecoach/Virgin bid.

 

[mirodo]

The logo in the Apple Maps public transport app has been changed to the LNER one, although it’s still labelled as “Virgin Trains East Coast” if you click through to view the info.

 

[IanXC]

The underlying DfT company that operates as LNER is actually called East Coast Mainline Company Ltd, as it was under VTEC.
This is the company that owns all the franchise staff and assets, and all the subsidiary contracts.
Changing ownership or branding doesn't change any of this.

Nope.

Its by way of a (typical franchise) transfer scheme to London North Eastern Railway Limited.

 

[whhistle]

I also note RJIS now displays services as LNER...
Been like that for the past few days.

From what I have seen of the various agreements (albeit, very few) the DfT can request an operator brands in a certain way, but cannot force an operator.

Um, the ITT for the East Midlands franchise doesn't read like it gives a choice...
Virgin is a brand, nothing more.
But remember, the people will all be the same and the way the West Coast has been run will be difficult to change, so it'll always have some sort of Virgin flair for the first 3/4 years of any franchise anyway.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

More likely be LMS, by Virgin Trains. Somehow that doesn't quite work.
I say that because another poster said in a previous post somewhere that they had information that the DFT has licenced the name LMS for future use. So could be a fair old bet. Cant see VT liking LMS by VT if that turns out to be the case.

Anything's possible, but WCP will have to work for HS2 as well as the classic ICWC services.
It will even stretch into LNER territory in due course.
One day, East Midlanders/East Coasters will have to get used to starting from Euston with a different operator (like they did in 1841).
If "Virgin" win with SNCF involvement, SNCF may want some share of the branding.
But they may not win.

 

[capital12]

Yes, however this got approved needs a wake up call. Hopefully their pr and marketing teams gets a sharp reminder that they are adults, as are their potential customers and to start acting accordingly. The wacky uncle at a barbecue routine is wearing in the extreme, I am in my mid to late 30s and am fairly relaxed and easygoing: happy to be called by my first name rather than Dr by my students and am generally not a stickler for formality either at work or in my interactions with companies or organisations, outside it, but I really don't appreciate the faux mateyness of the virgin brand. I don't undertake leisure travel with Vtec due to Souter's repugnant views, but if I have to use virgin for work, all I want is to get to my destination on time in a clean and comfortable train, I don't need brash and gaudy marketing. Plus, if I have occasion to use the toilet, I would like to do so in silence please.

I have to agree with all that.

However going back 5 or 6 years I actually thought the Virgin Trains brand was actually ok and chose to go via the West Coast because of it - East Coast in their grey undercoat livery looked like a cheap budget operator so I gave them a wide berth.

Having to use East Coast on an occasion changed my mind completely though - despite the awful livery and logo, the service on board was actually pretty good.

Fast forward a few years and I now find the Virgin marketing childish, tacky and very unfunny (I believe the idiot that came up with the toilet idea is now at West Midlands Trains and beware the naff language has already been spotted on posters!) and totally puts me off using them.

The VT twitter feed is totally unbearable - they put up too many pointless gif’s along with irrelevant drivel that I ended up unfollowing them. I’ve just looked now and yesterday morning they tweeted ‘Happy Wednesday’ with a gif of a deranged child in a car?! It got 11 likes (from a following of 450000!) surely that must tell them something?!

I think they have gone too far with the matey stuff and they actually believe they’re so wonderful that they can’t see how crap they are now!

I hoped with LNER there would be a return to some form of professionalism in the communications - unfortunately they don’t seem to have had a clear out of the marketing department, so I won’t hold my breath.

 

[ricoblade]

Not my area but I'll pass it on.

Thanks - I came on here to post about this as the same is happening for me.

 

[Mully]

It took me about 60 seconds to change the 'original' fake photo into this. And I have zero photoshop skills. Still look legit..?

The main thing wrong with the 'original' fake is that it breaks every modern brand guideline rule about having sufficient 'clear space' around the logo - nearly always at least the height of the logo. Whoever created the fake photo just made the logo too big for the space available.

View attachment 48257

Many thanks to all. My original Photo has been vandalised but that's Social Media for you. You can do what you want with a .gif but was NOT Photo-shopped but other well known brands. You can watch the video here on my Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Mully.Gwynne/

 

[SteveP29]

Same for me. Hopefully Wallsendmag spots these posts and can take a look into this

For once, something worked first time for me!