Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[pt_mad]

Other than the letter someone linked to telling Staff DOR were coming into the business and needed access if they turned up at sites.

 

[Skimble19]

Overheard on an VTEC sevice yesterday that the Virgin Trains decals on the HSTs and 225s doors is to be removed “urgently” and that they hope it’s direct controlled again (al a East Coast). Also there are 1,500 staff taking them to tribunal. Not sure how true that is though.

Sounds distinctly like a member of staff saying what they would like to happen more than reality in my opinion.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Overheard on an VTEC sevice yesterday that the Virgin Trains decals on the HSTs and 225s doors is to be removed “urgently” and that they hope it’s direct controlled again (al a East Coast). Also there are 1,500 staff taking them to tribunal. Not sure how true that is though.

There's no Virgin Trains decals on the doors of the VTEC fleet only the Virgin logo on the loco/powercar/DVT. Only VTWC have VT logos on the windows of the doors.

Sounds distinctly like a member of staff saying what they would like to happen more than reality in my opinion.

There's a lot of rumours circulating at the moment. Definitely need to hear the same thing from multiple independent sources before believing anything.

One of the guards heard on Monday that VTEC senior management had been given notice that the franchise was going to be terminated. They expressed their doubts on it too.

 

[ainsworth74]

Also there are 1,500 staff taking them to tribunal.

Taking them to Tribunal (presumably Employment?) for what?!? That's a massive number of staff to be taking that sort of action so would suggest some utterly systemic failing in employee relations.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Taking them to Tribunal (presumably Employment?) for what?!? That's a massive number of staff to be taking that sort of action so would suggest some utterly systemic failing in employee relations.

I'm sure if that's true at least one of the VTEC staff who talk to me would be aware.

Employee relations are definitely low though. One guard said to me they'd jump at the chance to have NXEC back and they thought they were bad at the time.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure if that's true at least one of the VTEC staff who talk to me would be aware.

Yes I was thinking similar to be honest! There's no way something of that magnitude wouldn't have leaked by now.

Employee relations are definitely low though. One guard said to me they'd jump at the chance to have NXEC back and they thought they were bad at the time.

Yes I can well believe that. The impression I've got is that the "We're Awesome!" approach being taken by management and corporate communications is not, at all, working on the majority of staff. Or at least those that were brought in prior to VTEC (which will be the majority).

 

[SaveECRewards]

Yes I was thinking similar to be honest! There's no way something of that magnitude wouldn't have leaked by now.

Speaking of things leaking out, apparently VTEC got an award for their catering. Quite ironic as the past 12 months has been more associated with the Catering Lottery in first class (not knowing whether your train would have the advertised catering) and in standard the trolley is an endangered species.

Interestingly VTEC have yet to Tweet details about this award, wonder if they're afraid of the backlash.

Yes I can well believe that. The impression I've got is that the "We're Awesome!" approach being taken by management and corporate communications is not, at all, working on the majority of staff. Or at least those that were brought in prior to VTEC (which will be the majority).

That's exactly why some prefer NXEC, they found both VTEC and NXEC to be bad employers but at least NXEC were honest about the cost cutting with staff, they weren't telling them everything is awesome and cutting on board staff is going to make the service even better.

I was thinking recently. I'm a customer of a few Virgin companies, but VTEC seem to be the one that's most irritating. Even VTWC who invented 'Arrive Awesome' don't seem to be as in your face (although perhaps I don't notice it as much as I only use VTWC a few times a year). Does anyone who mostly travels VTWC but with some VTEC agree with this assessment?

 

[Starmill]

Does anyone who mostly travels VTWC but with some VTEC agree with this assessment?

Yes.

But this is probably because I have been using VT for a great many years, and I know what to expect. They don't go for such annoying posters I think. VTEC, as the newcomers, took everything I liked about EC (that in my view made them better than VT) and got rid of it. In general, the standard of their service is better too, primarily because the rolling stock is so much more up to date. They are still poor in many areas that East Coast have been better at, but they are at least generally predictable. I have almost always paid less to travel with VT too.

 

[HH]

Unless Stagecoach take the attitude they did on SWT, my money would be on a management contract. It's certainly what DfT would prefer, but they obviously have to make a deal that will pass scrutiny.

 

[johnnychips]

...I'm a customer of a few Virgin companies, but VTEC seem to be the one that's most irritating...

There's something up at Doncaster station (is it VTEC managed?) about wanting to marry a train, which makes me want to punch a wall.

 

[SaveECRewards]

There's something up at Doncaster station (is it VTEC managed?) about wanting to marry a train, which makes me want to punch a wall.

It's VTEC managed. I think I've missed that one, so if you have a pic I'd love to see it. I'm guessing it's something to do with the Azuma.

One thing I noticed recently at Doncaster and Grantham was ads that say "collect sweet Nectar points when you spend". I was told they did have a contractual agreement to mention Nectar on a certain percentage of ads but it was generally done just by sticking the logo in the corner.

 

[Domh245]

There's something up at Doncaster station (is it VTEC managed?) about wanting to marry a train, which makes me want to punch a wall.

It's VTEC managed. I think I've missed that one, so if you have a pic I'd love to see it. I'm guessing it's something to do with the Azuma.

Is it this one from the "funny rail notices" thread from a week ago

11 TRAINS every weekday from LONDON to Retford.
Virgin trains
So many trains, we love trains.
should probably marry one!
but we've checked and you can't

 

[greyman42]

Is it this one from the "funny rail notices" thread from a week ago

The same advert is on York station as well, with details relevant to York.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Is it this one from the "funny rail notices" thread from a week ago

They really need to sack the advertising agency that came up with all of this (unless the agency just came up with the style and the rest was done in house). Back when the 'bound for glory' ads were airing and the station ads adopted the style I thought it was an excellent campaign.

The current style is just awful. Not only do you have the attempts to be funny they've had ads pulled because they're just wrong (no booking fee but ONLY if you book direct) and they changed their TV campaign from Spandau v Speedcore to Spandau v Thrash Metal presumably because associating your competition with speed was a bad idea. This new campaign was also when they started going overboard plastering the stations with ads. Like I said on Twitter it feels like what Mike Ashley as done with Newcastle United - St James' Park is plastered in Sports Direct ads, VTEC makes the station just as tacky.

 

[387star]

The vinyl hasn't worn well at all with the joins clearly visible and often quite dirty looking

 

[yorksrob]

The vinyl hasn't worn well at all with the joins clearly visible and often quite dirty looking

I know they're supposed to be retired soon, but isn't it time the trains got a proper repaint. NX must have been the last time.

 

[Merseysider]

Does anyone who mostly travels VTWC but with some VTEC agree with this assessment?

Yes. VTEC seem to send at least twice as many tacky, annoying (childish) marketing emails as their West Coast neighbours do.

VTWC have reigned it in to a sensible degree regarding station posters/adverts but VTEC are just so much more ‘in your face’.

And the endless wibble about bloody Azuma is getting boring.

 

[Starmill]

I know they're supposed to be retired soon, but isn't it time the trains got a proper repaint. NX must have been the last time.

Nope. East Coast painted most of the vehicles grey. Some but not all mark 3s were done.

 

[yorksrob]

Nope. East Coast painted most of the vehicles grey. Some but not all mark 3s were done.

Ah cheers. NX was a grey sort of livery, so I'd assumed they'd just re-vynaled.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah cheers. NX was a grey sort of livery, so I'd assumed they'd just re-vynaled.

No it was NXEC, I think, that just used viynals. Hence why East Cost had to paint the trains as it was due.

 

[yorksrob]

No it was NXEC, I think, that just used viynals. Hence why East Cost had to paint the trains as it was due.

That's surprising, considering how different their liveries were (not counting the early replacement of the red stripe with a white one).

 

[cactustwirly]

No it was NXEC, I think, that just used viynals. Hence why East Cost had to paint the trains as it was due.

I believe the HSTs were repainted by NXEC, which is why they weren't repainted by EC.

 

[Domh245]

With the Mk3s, I was under the impression that NXEC repainted them into white with the silver bands at the vehicle ends, and East Coast ran with that for most of their franchise, and only towards the end of their franchise did they start to repaint the Mk3s (and 43s) into the full grey East Coast livery. There were still some in the NXEC scheme once the franchise passed to VTEC.

 

[Helvellyn]

Seeing the talk about #Avocard above just shows that VTEC/VTWC really need to sort out their branding, they have had three years to do it. The either have to appear seamless to the customer or be obviously different. Stagecoach own virgintrainswestcoast.com why don't they use it and make virgintrains.co.uk a landing page? People get confused all the time because two separate franchises use the same branding. They had three years to sort out the confusion. I'm not sure what it gains for them.

Stagecoach is a minority stakeholder in VTWC, whereas on VTEC it is Virgin that is the minority stakeholder. They are structured differently as well - VTWC is "owned" by Virgin Rail Group, which is 51% owned by Virgin Group and 49% by Stagecoach Group; whereas VTEC is "owned" by Inter City Railways, which is 90% owned by Stagecoach Group and 10% owned by Virgin Group.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there are restrictions on how far VTWC and VTEC could co-operate given the different owning structures and competition concerns for Anglo-Scottish flows.

 

[jyte]

Never thought I'd see trains on deviantart hahahaha

 

[pt_mad]

Is it this one from the "funny rail notices" thread from a week ago

They should put them up on the West Coast. '4 Virgin Trains each weekday from Tamworth to London. I should probably marry a train'. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

 

[SaveECRewards]

With the Mk3s, I was under the impression that NXEC repainted them into white with the silver bands at the vehicle ends, and East Coast ran with that for most of their franchise, and only towards the end of their franchise did they start to repaint the Mk3s (and 43s) into the full grey East Coast livery. There were still some in the NXEC scheme once the franchise passed to VTEC.

I've never seen any mk 3 carriages painted East Coast grey, so if they existed they must have been in the minority. EC did paint the power cars though.

As for paintwork, if you look at my April Fools video (which is actually a video VTEC produced played backwards) you can see the terrible state of the paintwork before the vinyls were applied. They did some touching up before the vinyl was applied, some bits with red paint so if you just removed the vinyl the train would look a mess. You can see the former NXEC livery being unveiled around 2:40.

Stagecoach is a minority stakeholder in VTWC, whereas on VTEC it is Virgin that is the minority stakeholder. They are structured differently as well - VTWC is "owned" by Virgin Rail Group, which is 51% owned by Virgin Group and 49% by Stagecoach Group; whereas VTEC is "owned" by Inter City Railways, which is 90% owned by Stagecoach Group and 10% owned by Virgin Group.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there are restrictions on how far VTWC and VTEC could co-operate given the different owning structures and competition concerns for Anglo-Scottish flows.

They do co-operate with marketing, for example there was an ad that said how many 'Virgin Trains' operated between Edinburgh and London and they included the combined total from both franchises. I'm sure co-operating on an avocado wouldn't break any rules.

 

[Domh245]

I've never seen any mk 3 carriages painted East Coast grey, so if they existed they must have been in the minority. EC did paint the power cars though.

(not my photo)

It is entirely possible that this was a vinyl job over the top, but given East Coast's tendency to not spend money unless absolutely necessary, I'd think it was a proper paint job.

 

[SaveECRewards]

It is entirely possible that this was a vinyl job over the top, but given East Coast's tendency to not spend money unless absolutely necessary, I'd think it was a proper paint job.

It looks nice and smart there (shame about the interior). How did I forget that one? It's the set that transferred from EMT in 2011 so will never have had an NXEC livery. For a little while it had the EMT livery but with EC logos replacing the EMT ones.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I've made about 10 roundtrips on them over the past three months, at both ends of the bus. In general, things are OK but the lack of consistency is the problem. The random nature of the catering trolley is a little frustrating (I once witnessed a full on row between the buffet car manager and a member of staff about whether the train was 'too full' to offer the service). It was a busy train but not JeremyCorbynRammed. The catering in First is normally OK, but I am still recovering from the day the powerswitch in the catering vehicle broke at 0705 and there was nothing at all: VTEC refused to reimburse any of many money for that! The sandwich offer is not particularly inspiring, especially the fare charged. Some of the trolley people are pretty good, and engage in a bit of banter. But, all in all, the whole operation is nowhere near as good as Seacon managed. I suspect the next move on most Intercity TOCs will be to further dialdown the on-train catering: people I suspect want cheap fares rather than good on-board service. I always avoid HSTs wherever I can as they are in noticeably poorer condition and the ride quality needs improvement.