Virgin Trains penalty charge

[trimmtrab]

Hi there

Wonder if anyone could advise me. I bought advance tickets for Milton Keynes - Manchester return. At Manchester I threw what I thought was the outbound ticket plus seat reservation. I had thrown the return in a genuine error. At MK therefore I had the incorrect ticket however I did have the correct seat reservation. The ticket inspector charged me an extra £61.30 as I didn't have a ticket

I bought the tickets on-line through the TrainLine.com. I have been in touch with Virgin Customer Services to ask for a refund who have asked to email in all the evidence which I have kept.

What are the chances of them giving me the refund? Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks.

 

[Clip]

Not a lot. There's nothing to prove you didn't give the other ticket to someone else is there?

 

[47421]

50-50 I would say.

VT Customer Relations are ok, they do seem to actually exercise some discretion, and on twitter you see them offering to sort stuff out via CR which under T&C s not obliged to.

So while I don't want to get your hopes up too much, I think you might be pleasantly surprised with a gesture of goodwill refund, but basically will come down to what mood they are in when they get to your email.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And if you have not emailed yet, and apologies if this is stating the obvious, but I would keep it brief and polite stating what you say above, and attach photos or scans of any of the tickets you retain and any booking refs etc, as they will need evidence both that you bought the original adv tics as well as paying for another on the train.

 

[trimmtrab]

Not a lot. There's nothing to prove you didn't give the other ticket to someone else is there?

Thanks for the reply. Quick question: why would you give a ticket to someone else knowing that you needed the proof to get out of the station at the other end?

 

[trimmtrab]

50-50 I would say.

VT Customer Relations are ok, they do seem to actually exercise some discretion, and on twitter you see them offering to sort stuff out via CR which under T&C s not obliged to.

So while I don't want to get your hopes up too much, I think you might be pleasantly surprised with a gesture of goodwill refund, but basically will come down to what mood they are in when they get to your email.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And if you have not emailed yet, and apologies if this is stating the obvious, but I would keep it brief and polite stating what you say above, and attach photos or scans of any of the tickets you retain and any booking refs etc, as they will need evidence both that you bought the original adv tics as well as paying for another on the train.

Yep, have done all that, thanks

 

[47421]

Good stuff, pls report back with outcome in due course, tks

 

[island]

For future reference never use the trainline as it is invariably more expensive than buying your ticket directly from a train company. It sells the exact same range of tickets but charges booking and credit card fees, which train companies don't charge.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Thanks for the reply. Quick question: why would you give a ticket to someone else knowing that you needed the proof to get out of the station at the other end?

Someone who did that could pay up as you did and write to them to get the money back.

They could also avoid paying in the first place using many other more nefarious methods.

 

[trimmtrab]

Someone who did that could pay up as you did and write to them to get the money back.

They could also avoid paying in the first place using many other more nefarious methods.

Oh I see what you mean, I could think of easier ways of saving £61.00 than such a convoluted scheme. The world is just full of suspicious people whereas in actual fact some of us just make genuine mistakes, but in Cameron's Britain we're all conniving schemers on the take.

Rant over!

 

[Clip]

Thanks for the reply. Quick question: why would you give a ticket to someone else knowing that you needed the proof to get out of the station at the other end?

Its called fare evasion. You get a refund on the second ticket you bought and your companion uses the one you 'lost'.

 

[trimmtrab]

Its called fare evasion. You get a refund on the second ticket you bought and your companion uses the one you 'lost'.

Thankyou fr your 'helpful reply', I came on here asking for help and really didn't expect to be called a thief. Please don't bother in future

 

[island]

And many people will blag their way out of the barriers without giving up their ticket on the grounds they need it for expenses, etc.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I have done the exact same thing the OP has done. I was travelling from Glasgow Central to Warrington Bank Quay, and threw away the return.

Thankfully the Virgin staff were more than helpful, as I had booked the ticket through their mobile app, they weren't to concerned about me throwing away the wrong ticket...

 

[bb21]

Its called fare evasion. You get a refund on the second ticket you bought and your companion uses the one you 'lost'.

Thankyou fr your 'helpful reply', I came on here asking for help and really didn't expect to be called a thief. Please don't bother in future

He is only trying to answer your question.

You wanted to know how this can be used in a dodgy way and he told you how.

Oh I see what you mean, I could think of easier ways of saving £61.00 than such a convoluted scheme. The world is just full of suspicious people whereas in actual fact some of us just make genuine mistakes, but in Cameron's Britain we're all conniving schemers on the take.

Rant over!

It has nothing to do with people being suspicious but everything to do with those who give passengers without the correct ticket a bad name.

I suggest that your annoyance is misdirected.

 

[Tracky]

Looking over this thread my observation is...

You made a mistake, leaving you in a train without a valid ticket for your journey.

So...

You were charged for a new ticket. Note this is not a penalty.

Your case to the train manager...

You threw the wrong half away. Genuine mistake.

The reason you were still charged...

Some people claim to have made that same mistake, when they have in fact passed the ticket on to somebody else or used the ticket on a previous day or intend to put the ticket in for a refund.

I am a keen believer in ticket barriers retaining tickets and revenue staff endorsing tickets properly during the journey.

 

[Flamingo]

Thankyou fr your 'helpful reply', I came on here asking for help and really didn't expect to be called a thief. Please don't bother in future

Well, if you want advice, pull your neck in and accept it.

If you want a group hug and be told how brilliant you are and it's all somebody else's fault, go pay a therapist.

 

[Realfish]

I have done the exact same thing the OP has done. I was travelling from Glasgow Central to Warrington Bank Quay, and threw away the return.

Thankfully the Virgin staff were more than helpful, as I had booked the ticket through their mobile app, they weren't to concerned about me throwing away the wrong ticket...

Me too. I'm always careful, especially when carrying a handful of coupons, but a few weeks ago inexplicably and unknowingly presented the return portion of my Market Harborough to London E* tickets, to the barriers at STP on my outward journey en route to Paris. The barrier let me through but retained the coupon (my travelling companion presented the correct outward ticket and got hers back - something that mystified me until I got back to STP on the return).

Having read of RJs adventures with EM Trains, I feared the worse. but the gateline staff were friendly and understanding and stamped my seat reservation with permission to travel.

 

[jon0844]

Well, if you want advice, pull your neck in and accept it.

If you want a group hug and be told how brilliant you are and it's all somebody else's fault, go pay a therapist.

Well he did blame David Cameron, even though people have been trying it on for as long as I can remember.

It doesn't mean he was, but that's why you can't automatically believe every story. Far too many chancery, and why not when blagging so often does work?

 

[6Gman]

Oh I see what you mean, I could think of easier ways of saving £61.00 than such a convoluted scheme. The world is just full of suspicious people whereas in actual fact some of us just make genuine mistakes, but in Cameron's Britain we're all conniving schemers on the take.

Rant over!

Oh well, at least blaming Cameron for everything makes a change from blaming Thatcher for everything!

 

[trimmtrab]

Thank you to all the helpful replies I received on my request fr help. I received vouchers fr £62 today which I am pleased about. Good to know that there are people willing to help after my error. Well done Virgin.

 

[trimmtrab]

Oh I thought I had posted the result of this incident earlier. So to update everyone: I received a letter back from Virgin explaining that the tickets were not refundable however they did include £62 worth of rail Vouchers for use in the next 12 months which I am very pleased with.

Many thanks to the helpful people who assisted me above and maybe a little message to others that sometimes people make genuine mistakes and not everyone is on the fiddle

 

[Tracky]

Pleased for you but Very disappointed in the company.

This is exactly the situation which leaves staff feeling unsupported in carrying out revenue duties. Staff carry out duties to the book and customer relations undermine them.

 

[All Line Rover]

Pleased for you but Very disappointed in the company.

This is exactly the situation which leaves staff feeling unsupported in carrying out revenue duties. Staff carry out duties to the book and customer relations undermine them.

I don't see why that is the case. Rail staff perform their duties thoroughly and Customer Relations decide whether a particular case deserves some discretion. It is easy to misplace an advance ticket coupon, even a business traveller who might spend tens of thousands of pounds per year. Customer Relations might decide that it is not worth punishing such an individual.

It is understandably frustrating when Customer Relations cave in to a rude or aggressive passenger.

 

[Clip]

What a shame Virgin have allegedly done what they always do.

They make a mockery of all the hard work that TOCs do to try and eradicate fare evasion.


Not saying you were OP but as usual Virgin bow to the easy option.

 

[47421]

Thanks for the update. Great result.

 

[Tracky]

I am very well aware that a major cause of complaint is inconsistency in revenue enforcement on the railway. One reason for this inconsistency is that a number of staff are not willing to enforce rules as they believe they will be undermined if the customer complains. This in turn makes it harder for the rest of us when we do enforce the rules.

 

[trimmtrab]

Thanks for the update. Great result.

Thanks

 

[Hadders]

I think this is a good outcome for the OP and an appropriate course of action for Virgin to take. It isn't a case of not backing revenue staff.

If someone takes the trouble to write in with a convincing argument there is a reasonable chance it is genuine. Virgin has to balance the reputational damage that can occur of they point blank refuse to do anything against the potential loss of revenue.

By issuing vouchers the OP will have a higher opinion of Virgin and the railway in general so will be more likely to travel in future. Also, by issuing vouchers it makes sure that they are spent within the rail industry.

 

[LateThanNever]

And many people will blag their way out of the barriers without giving up their ticket on the grounds they need it for expenses, etc.

It certainly used to be the case that a ticket was also your receipt so you were entitled to retain it. Do I presume that this regulation has altered?

 

[Hadders]

It certainly used to be the case that a ticket was also your receipt so you were entitled to retain it. Do I presume that this regulation has altered?

Let's not start that debate again - plenty of threads already on this subject without having to go round in circles again!!!