Virgin Trains Railcard Peak Regulations

[bb21]

An interesting question. However I don't see why LM would be obliged to accept this variation unless VT paid them to do so, as it is in excess of the NRCoC. So would it have to be a case of buy an Anytime Single to MKC (to change for an onward VT) and claim it back from VT?

Possibly, but I would imagine that VT have an obligation to reach an agreement with LM for the conveyance of their passengers who they were no longer able to transport themselves (or to arrange alternative transport).

 

[yorkie]

Who was right?

Depends on your interpretation, but I'd say the frontline staff.
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So, this sounds like the Off-peak ticket would be valid on the 07:30. Would anyone be able to confirm this, please? I don't want to go ahead and purchase the ticket to then turn up on the day and be told my ticket isn't valid on that service.

It's valid due to the aforementioned 'easement' however if you purchase a ticket with an accompanying itinerary then contract law stipulates that the itinerary is valid. This is further clarified on the National Rail website (and mentioned in our Fares Guide).
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Would the promotion apply/be valid for travel on the Rugby – London Euston 06:20 - 07:31 departure (1R03). if starting at Northampton*, if one morning the 1R03 got cancelled ....what would be the option then?

Seek staff advice. This is the last Virgin train of the day (it's the only one!), so arrangements should be made to convey Virgin passengers on LM. Delay Compensation would apply as appropriate.

Would LM authorise travel on the next train? or would you have to "upgrade" to peak in order to travel on LM.

If anything extra was charged I'd get that reported and refunded (as well as compensation for the delay).
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A refund would be offered.

A refund would be an option if, and only if, the passenger chose not to travel. But that clearly wasn't the question.

Don't tell me you're seriously suggesting the rail industry would not be obliged to convey the passenger, as per contract law and the NRCoC?

The passenger has a contract entitling them to travel from Northampton to London Euston, this clearly must be honoured.
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An interesting question. However I don't see why LM would be obliged to accept this variation unless VT paid them to do so

This is of no concern to the customer.

as it is in excess of the NRCoC.

You do not need to refer to the NRCoC. Contract law cannot be undermined by the NRCoC, and there is nothing in the NRCoC which says that a passenger whose train is cancelled should be refused carriage.

So would it have to be a case of buy an Anytime Single to MKC (to change for an onward VT) and claim it back from VT?

No.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/ACOP015v3%20-%20PIDD%20%282%29.pdf

A TOC’s fare policy that ensures customers are not penalised during disruption.

During disruptive incidents passengers should not be discriminated against on the basis of operator and efforts should be made to deliver the same high standards to everyone.

Hypothetically, in your claimed scenario, if LM did not want to assist VT passengers (there's no evidence presented in this thread of this actually happening, but I am just covering your hypothetical scenario of LM refusing travel) then they would be required to give up the franchise.

 

[AM9]

I have two questions in respect of the VT offer:
If I enter on the NRE webpage for a ticket from EUS to MAN at say 08:20 M-F to return in the evening with a SEN railcard, it offers an SVR for £53.85 This same ticket is shown for every train of the day when the 'Return from' tab is used. (For some days there are cheaper offers using the '2 singles from' tab because Advances are available for the evening return trains.)

If I get an SVR for an early train:

Q1) Is it valid on any train in the morning?
Q2) Rather than travel south to EUS in the morning rush, could I go to MKC on a separate LM single ticket, and pick up the 08:20 there (at 08:50)?

I would be grateful for advice please.

 

[causton]

I have two questions in respect of the VT offer:
If I enter on the NRE webpage for a ticket from EUS to MAN at say 08:20 M-F to return in the evening with a SEN railcard, it offers an SVR for £53.85 This same ticket is shown for every train of the day when the 'Return from' tab is used. (For some days there are cheaper offers using the '2 singles from' tab because Advances are available for the evening return trains.)

If I get an SVR for an early train:

Q1) Is it valid on any train in the morning?
Q2) Rather than travel south to EUS in the morning rush, could I go to MKC on a separate LM single ticket, and pick up the 08:20 there (at 08:50)?

I would be grateful for advice please.

Yes and yes.

If you have a railcard and the fare is one of the ones allowed, you can take any Virgin (West Coast) train on the date specified on the ticket.

This does not in any way affect your rights to break your journey or start short at Milton Keynes

 

[AM9]

Yes and yes.

If you have a railcard and the fare is one of the ones allowed, you can take any Virgin (West Coast) train on the date specified on the ticket.

This does not in any way affect your rights to break your journey or start short at Milton Keynes

Thanks for a prompt answer. Does a 'break of journey' include not doing part of it at all, i.e. starting further down the route than what is on the ticket (MKC instead of EUS)?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for a prompt answer. Does a 'break of journey' include not doing part of it at all, i.e. starting further down the route than what is on the ticket (MKC instead of EUS)?

The NRCoC explicitly states you can do this "however these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the Ticket Seller must make this clear when you buy your ticket."

Where it is made clear to you that you can't, then the rail industry has the right to charge you the difference between "the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s)" but it is the policy of the rail industry not to make any such charge unless there was a clear attempt to buy a cheaper fare.

 

[OwlMan]

The Virgin easement does not allow journeys from Northampton/Milton Keynes - so it is not valid from Northampton

Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR, which are discounted using 16-25, Senior , Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards and Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card, can travel on Virgin Train services at any time, provided that all travel is on Virgin Trains services
only. This easement does not apply for journeys wholly between Milton Keynes Central/Northampton and London Euston in either direction.

 

[bb21]

The Virgin easement does not allow journeys from Northampton/Milton Keynes - so it is not valid from Northampton

I believe AM9 was intending on travelling between London and MKC on LM with a separate ticket.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some VT SVRs have break of journey restrictions.
Flint-Euston is one of them (to prevent starting/ending short at Chester or Crewe).
In fact most North Wales coast SVRs are like that (restriction VK), because the off-peak restrictions for ordinary passengers are less onerous than those from Chester/Wrexham/Manchester etc (restriction 2C).

It's interesting that the VT SVR to Euston from a very wide area is the same price - currently £53.85 (railcard).
This is from Manchester, Liverpool, Chester, Wrexham, Flint, Runcorn, Warrington, Wigan, St Helens, Bolton, Stalybridge, Rochdale and many nearby stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Virgin easement does not allow journeys from Northampton/Milton Keynes - so it is not valid from Northampton

That appears to be a recent change, possibly to avoid the situation noted above.