Virgin Trains removes standard class quiet zone; worst intercity TOC in living memory

[Flamingo]

They shouldn't be in the QC anyway if they are that vociferous

Ah, you noticed

 

[snail]

It's not that people are 'important', it's just that some people would like to make productive use of their travelling time - so that time out of the office isn't wasted and when they eventually do get home, they can spend time with their family rather than catching up on work. YMMV.

Productive use of time I have no problem with. My point was that some act like they have a right to be allowed to work undisturbed. Generally the people that try to grab two seats and 3/4 of a table because they need the space. I sometimes do work on the train but most of the time can't because of the nature of the work I do. And I never agree to 'catch up' when I get home. Very rarely is something so important that it can't wait until the next day.

 

[RailAleFan]

Glad to see the back of "Quiet Carriages".

XC scrapped the ideas months ago, glad to see others are following suit.

The notion seemed to install some kind of superiority complex between those who hadn't accidentally made a noise yet and those who had.

 

[Jonfun]

I recall usually finding the loudest people in the carriage were the ones who regularly exclaimed in a shocked and appalled voice, "EXCU-USE ME! This is the QUIET carriage!".

 

[Aldaniti]

I would agree with you about anything involving TPE and Northern other than very rural branch lines. I don't find VT Standard particularly unpleasant - the seating is a bit cramped and some seats don't have windows, but there really are worse things in the world. As for joining busy services at Lime St, can you allow a bit longer for your connection and join first? Letting trains go such that I can board a longer time before departure at Euston (or be standing right next to the door if they're not unlocked yet) is my trick for having a near 100% record of getting a seat when commuting.

But I think the quiet zone thing is more of a symptom of an increasing greater problem - of overcrowding, of people who have no consideration for others (e.g. by listening to/watching films with the volume up in a public area) and similar.

You should maybe try LM south WCML commuter services some time. There are no marked quiet coaches because *all* coaches are de-facto quiet coaches. Make a racket and you will get tutted at at the very least...



Trains or no trains, I think we can say that that is definitely a favourable outcome - to your health, to traffic congestion, to how busy the trains are etc. Cycling is to be very much encouraged.

There are things worse than Virgin's standard class Neil, I agree. If they aren't overly busy they are adequate for an hour or two, but my journeys were predominately Preston/Wigan to Birmingham International in the peak. It wasn't too bad in the morning, but utterly horrendous returning in the evening. I make the journey by car now, it's not ideal, but I really do find it less stressful than travelling with Virgin. I've also found that taking station journey and waiting time into account, the journey door to door car journey is about the same. I'd happily pay a reasonable premium to make the journey in First, but Virgin only seem to do extortionate on the trains I used to travel on. Its a pity because my natural first instinct is to travel by train. I'm very pro-rail, but not at any cost.

I'm really enjoying the cycling. As you say, there are many benefits. I'm not sure about the diesel fumes I'm breathing in but its great for your physical and, I find, mental health - and I highly recommend it.

 

[SS4]

At the end of the day people don't have a right to a quiet journey to work. As I've asked before how do they cope when in the office if they need silence to work.

By thinking what I'll do with the money they pay me. If only I could do that on the train...

 

[Bevan Price]

About the only way to get really quiet carriages would be to ban young children - and football supporters. Had the misfortune to endure a group of them on part of a journey yesterday - don't this type know anything original to sing / chant ? Pity that we now have to endure travelling football supporters for 11 months per year - at least we used to get quiet summers when the season was only about 8½ months long.

Anyway, excellent conductor must have a good sense of humour. After they got off, he made an announcement apologising for any inconvenience to passengers due to the impromptu chorus by the "Danny Dyer Appreciation Society" between Alfreton & Sheffield.
And then, during his second ticket check, he announced "tickets, passes, railcards ...... and excuses" .

 

[AM9]

At the end of the day people don't have a right to a quiet journey to work. As I've asked before how do they cope when in the office if they need silence to work. Indeed people may be put off train travel if Virgin do away with quiet zones but I am guessing a company that size have done a bit of research first (Maybe even working on the train!). If you don't like it you can drive which some people claim to find more relaxing. I personally don't find being stuck in a car more relaxing but who am I to say. All of these technological advances were meant to make our lives easier. Instead we are living further away from work and doing work on the journey there and back without a shorter day in the office. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I agree, this is another thing that a few passengers are trying to claim as a birthright for themselves to the detriment of the majority. If those who's lifestyle choice is to treat trains as a 'Regus on rails' then their opportunity to expect normal passengers to sit there in silence looks like ending. Their 'work-life balance' is nothing to do with the provision of public transport facilities. They will just have to get over it!
If they want to do their oh-so-important work on public transport, then providing that it doesn't encroach on the space required by normal passengers that's OK. If they can't concentrate because of ordinary conversation, coughing, sneezing or any other normal human noises then they should either use NC headsets or earplugs. The latter are very cheap and quite effective so there's no excuse of 'can't afford them' especially if the work is so necessary.
Maybe their employers should pay for them if they expect the work to be done, - that's if they really know about it or care. In my working life, when my employer expected work to be done on the move then travel expenses covered Business Class or First Class.

 

[Starmill]

There are much worse problems than this with our railway network. Much, much worse things that the TOCs want to impose on their employees and customers.

However, I think the reason ALR is galled about this is because it wouldn't cost VT to keep it as it is. I can't believe this is causing that much of a problem.

Coach A on a Pendolino is perfect for the Quiet Zone, because its slightly smaller in terms of passenger accommodation than the other coaches, and on a majority of sets there are a whole 6 other larger coaches for people who don't want to respect the quiet zone to use. You are not at all likely to end up in the situation where people want non-quiet accommodation, but there are no seats left in it, and the only available seats are in coach A. There should be no need for anyone to pass through either, apart from staff or the very occasional people loading bikes. It was as good a location for a quiet zone as you are going to get, removing it is just pointless.

 

[Jeni]

Good.

Noise happens. If you want silence, go and buy a place in the country and work from home. If you can't stand noise other people make, then perhaps travelling on a train full of people isn't the best option for you.

And the award for most hysterical thread title of the year goes to...

I think the OP is very anti Virgin, judging by their other thread title of "Virgin Trains is worse than state-run East Coast - again (removal of 1ST quiet coach)"

 

[AM9]

Good.

Noise happens. If you want silence, go and buy a place in the country and work from home. If you can't stand noise other people make, then perhaps travelling on a train full of people isn't the best option for you.



I think the OP is very anti Virgin, judging by their other thread title of "Virgin Trains is worse than state-run East Coast - again (removal of 1ST quiet coach)"

Quite a number of the threads here are either just rants about TOCs that they have got a hang-up about or whinges about the service(s) that they use. These posts rarely have any relevance with the real world issues encountered by most passengers when travelling.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I agree, this is another thing that a few passengers are trying to claim as a birthright for themselves to the detriment of the majority. If those who's lifestyle choice is to treat trains as a 'Regus on rails' then their opportunity to expect normal passengers to sit there in silence looks like ending. Their 'work-life balance' is nothing to do with the provision of public transport facilities. They will just have to get over it!

What is it about this thread that is causing people to make the most ranty, unnecessarily personalised judgements?

You don't mind noise. That's fine, that's your choice. Other people prefer quiet. That's fine too, that's their choice.

Virgin have made a commercial decision that they will make more revenue from a train without a quiet carriage than from a train with one. That's entirely their choice as a franchised train operator. The OP thinks it's a retrograde step, and has said so.

But there is absolutely no call for you to write such a snitty, sneering paragraph as the above just because you happen to have a different opinion from the OP (and others in this thread). If you really have such furious disdain for anyone who might have a different opinion to you, I worry for your blood pressure.

 

[Hellfire]

Virgin have made a commercial decision that they will make more revenue from a train without a quiet carriage than from a train with one. That's entirely their choice as a franchised train operator. The OP thinks it's a retrograde step, and has said so.

Why will Virgn make more revenue from a train without a quiet carriage? They either sell the seats or they don't.

 

[AM9]

What is it about this thread that is causing people to make the most ranty, unnecessarily personalised judgements?

You don't mind noise. That's fine, that's your choice. Other people prefer quiet. That's fine too, that's their choice.

I don't particularly like certain types of noise, e.g. screaming babies, music not played via headphones, loud phone conversations to mane a few, but I don't expect to have to sit in stony silence just because some think that they are entitled to it.

Virgin have made a commercial decision that they will make more revenue from a train without a quiet carriage than from a train with one. That's entirely their choice as a franchised train operator. The OP thinks it's a retrograde step, and has said so.

Virgin have realiosed that arbitrary rules about such things as noise by passengers are unenforceable and will frequently cause issues between different people who apply their own thresholds of silence. Inevitably, it's the on-board staff who are left unsupported to deal with the fall out.

But there is absolutely no call for you to write such a snitty, sneering paragraph as the above just because you happen to have a different opinion from the OP (and others in this thread). If you really have such furious disdain for anyone who might have a different opinion to you, I worry for your blood pressure.

The tone of the thread has been set by the OP with a title that uses words like '.... worst Inter-City TOC in living memory'. It seems that some passengers regard the gagging of passengers for their own convenience above far more fundamental requirements for getting from A to B. I have commented on some of the postings, which I'm sure don't represent the true nature of the posters, but if the cap fits then they can wear it.
You have given yourself a login of 'Doctor Fegg'. If that means that you are a (qualified) medical doctor then thanks for your concern but worry not as posts on an internet forum wouldn't affect my blood pressure. If the login is indication a doctor in some other discipline or just a made-up name, then I accept your concern maybe as genuine but not supported by any background knowledge of my health.

 

[Camden]

The future is clearly that when we travel we all make as much noise as we like, regardless of whoever is around. No one else but me (so far) has ever heard my singing voice. I know it's awful, but when I'm in the house on my own it's enjoyable sometimes to sing along to the radio nonetheless.

However, it appears my saving my fellow human beings from enduring the sheer awfulness of my inability to hold a tune is not necessary. With the full endorsement of the "LET THERE BE NOISE!" brigade, perhaps they wouldn't mind if I were to break out in song for 2 hours in their company? No?

Because, unless you acknowledge that when you're in shared space you need to exhibit behaviours compatible with sharing that space with other people in a sensible and commonly respectful way, that is exactly the logical end result of living without common courtesy.

 

[HilversumNS]

I don't particularly like certain types of noise, e.g. screaming babies, music not played via headphones, loud phone conversations to mane a few, but I don't expect to have to sit in stony silence just because some think that they are entitled to it.

It's a QUIET carriage, not a SILENT one. There is also a choice (usually) to not sit in the quiet carriage if the lack of noise offends or upsets anyone.

 

[fowler9]

Perhaps if people want to sit in something called a quiet zone they could pay a premium for it, like premium economy on the airlines. You can't just get an advance in the quiet zone for example. You can't just exclude a load of people from part of the train for reasons that are hard to enforce and not charge the people wanting to sit there more. I am sure Virgin have made a business decision on this based on some pretty hard facts. And don't get me wrong, I don't always agree with the business decisions companies make. But what am I going to do? Take my business elsewhere? I'm sure that is factored in to the business decision.

 

[Agent_c]

Why will Virgn make more revenue from a train without a quiet carriage? They either sell the seats or they don't.

If customers avoid a "Quiet Carrage" it makes the train seem more packed than it is, which ultimately can detract from everyones experience.

Spreading the load more evenly makes it seem less packed.

 

[fowler9]

If customers avoid a "Quiet Carrage" it makes the train seem more packed than it is, which ultimately can detract from everyones experience.

Spreading the load more evenly makes it seem less packed.

Indeed. See what I said above.

 

[WL113]

Quiet coaches, like seat reservations, should all be removed now. They are no longer appropriate.

BR never had quiet coaches. Instead they had something far more welcome: longer trains.

 

[Senex]

It's a QUIET carriage, not a SILENT one. There is also a choice (usually) to not sit in the quiet carriage if the lack of noise offends or upsets anyone.

Just so. And it's only necessary because the general standard of behaviour in public and respect for one's fellow citizens (travellers in this case) has declined so much in the egocentric society.

The child problem is a slightly different one. I'm sure we've all seen the young child with a mother well prepared for the journey looking after the child and keeping it occupied, with the consequence that the child causes no disturbance whatsoever for others in the coach. But for every one of those there seem to be three or four whose parents are so busy with their music or their drinks that they do nothing to keep their brat occupied, resulting in major disturbance for everyone else. But modern lousy parenting is certainly not just confined to quiet coaches on the trains ....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite the opposite with reservations - accessibility via technology could mean an all reservation approach on ICs except a coach or two would work well.

 

[Flamingo]

Just so. And it's only necessary because the general standard of behaviour in public and respect for one's fellow citizens (travellers in this case) has declined so much in the egocentric society.

The child problem is a slightly different one. I'm sure we've all seen the young child with a mother well prepared for the journey looking after the child and keeping it occupied, with the consequence that the child causes no disturbance whatsoever for others in the coach. But for every one of those there seem to be three or four whose parents are so busy with their music or their drinks that they do nothing to keep their brat occupied, resulting in major disturbance for everyone else. But modern lousy parenting is certainly not just confined to quiet coaches on the trains ....

To be fair, (as all parents on here can vouch for) there are times when NOTHING you do can stop a child crying or playing up...

 

[AM9]

To be fair, (as all parents on here can vouch for) there are times when NOTHING you do can stop a child crying or playing up...

Well, the self-appointed Quiet Coach regulars would have the parent and children thrown off their coach!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

@virgintrains have denied that they're removing the standard class quiet coach.

 

[driver_m]

If this was going to happen (which it isn't) they would remove the stickers from coach a at the same time. The reasons stated for taking it out of first have been given. It is not being taken out of standard and the OP quite clearly has a major grudge against VT. There is little point to this thread as it is just a rant. Why aren't the mods locking it?

 

[Hellfire]

So, when is all this supposed to be happening? I'm happily sitting in Coach H on a Euston bound Pendolino and all the Quiet Coach signs are up and people are respecting them.

I have to say I find the venom directed against supporters of a Quiet Coach astonishing. What's wrong with having a small part of the train designated for those who prefer not to listen to loud mobile phone conversations or someone else's choice of music? On a standard Pendolino there are five other standard and four first carriages. For everyone who wants to make calls. The suggestion by some posters that people should pay extra for this is ridiculous.

Note, the term is 'Quiet' not 'Silent' I don't expect everyone to sit there like statues. I also would not expect these zones on commuter trains. But, on long distance services such as the WCML it's something a lot of travellers find a benefit.

 

[driver_m]

So, when is all this supposed to be happening? I'm happily sitting in Coach H on a Euston bound Pendolino and all the Quiet Coach signs are up and people are respecting them.

I have to say I find the venom directed against supporters of a Quiet Coach astonishing. What's wrong with having a small part of the train designated for those who prefer not to listen to loud mobile phone conversations or someone else's choice of music? On a standard Pendolino there are five other standard and four first carriages. For everyone who wants to make calls. The suggestion by some posters that people should pay extra for this is ridiculous.

Note, the term is 'Quiet' not 'Silent' I don't expect everyone to sit there like statues. I also would not expect these zones on commuter trains. But, on long distance services such as the WCML it's something a lot of travellers find a benefit.

It's Getting done in stages. 9 cars first as they go for conversion to 6 standard cars, iirc the 11s are getting done from September

 

[Minilad]

It's Getting done in stages. 9 cars first as they go for conversion to 6 standard cars, iirc the 11s are getting done from September

In post 116 you say it isn't being done. Now you're saying it is being done but in stages. Which one is it

 

[driver_m]

In post 116 you say it isn't being done. Now you're saying it is being done but in stages. Which one is it

The OP is talking about the STANDARD quiet carriage going. Which is NOT happening.

Hellfire is on about the FIRST class quiet coach which is going.