Virgin Trains Ticket inspectors at Manchester Piccadilly

[thenorthern]

Just noticed at Manchester Piccadilly they are inspecting tickets on all platforms this morning with both Virgin and CrossCountry staff inspecting tickets.

I know Virgin have been told to be tougher on fare evaders at Piccadilly so I was wondering if anyone knew if this is a permanent feature or just a tempory one.

I must say though it was funny watching all the free riders faces when the announcement came that an inspection was happening and they would need a ticket and then watching them wait in a long queue to get the non-discounted full fare.

 

[Greenback]

I'd guess it's only temporary, I doubt they could justify such a level of checks permanently.

 

[Tubeboy]

I've never been to Piccadilly. Are there ticket gates there?

 

[Greenback]

No, but I have sometimes encountered individuals holding a machine and asking to see my tickets on the platforms and on the bridge to the island platform 13/14.

 

[pemma]

No, but I have sometimes encountered individuals holding a machine and asking to see my tickets on the platforms and on the bridge to the island platform 13/14.

Those would be the STM Security staff employed by Northern. They are always at the doors by platforms 10 and 11 and in a position where they can check the passengers heading to 13/14 who don't use the travelator from platforms 10/11 and usually rotate between other platforms. However, they never do checks at the terminus ends platforms 6/7 as Virgin don't allow it.

 

[Thomas6187]

A full barrier check usually happens about once or twice a month, and will involve all the TOC that use Piccadilly. Recently Virgin have been increasing barrier checks at Piccadilly mainly because almost all Virgin service now depart off either 6 or 7.

 

[dk1]

A full barrier check usually happens about once or twice a month, and will involve all the TOC that use Piccadilly. Recently Virgin have been increasing barrier checks at Piccadilly mainly because almost all Virgin service now depart off either 6 or 7.

Good to see. Heres hoping it becomes more permanant.

 

[muz379]

I came into picadilly on a Northern service from the airport this morning after dropping my car of at the garage and at the end of P9 there where two revenue inspectors from ariva checking tickets as well . I assume they where there to check for the crosscountry service that was going to be departing P9 . I also saw virgin ticket staff checking at the end of other platforms .

 

[thenorthern]

Northern normally do ticket checks on platforms 1 and 2 as well.

I suppose with Piccadilly is harder to do a complete ticket check compared to Birmingham New Street as there are many ways to access the platforms where as at New St there is only 2 ways.

I am normally on the London - Manchester train and I would say that around half the passengers who board at Macclesfield and Stoke don't have a ticket so hopefully charging them the full anytime any permitted fare at Piccadilly rather than the Virgin Only fare will reduce ticket less travel.

 

[scrapy]

I've never been to Piccadilly. Are there ticket gates there?

No but they will be installed in the next couple of years as part of Virgin trains franchise requirement.
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I am normally on the London - Manchester train and I would say that around half the passengers who board at Macclesfield and Stoke don't have a ticket so hopefully charging them the full anytime any permitted fare at Piccadilly rather than the Virgin Only fare will reduce ticket less travel.

Virgin inspectors have been charging them Virgin only fares. If they are checked by another operators inspector they get an any permitted. Bit of a farce really.

 

[Emyr]

The inspectors were positioned at the doors of the glass screens today, rather than at the platform throats, so passengers could disperse to uncongested doors, but the air in the concourse seemed to closer to outside temperature than usual.

The exception was Northern's inspectors on Platforms 1-3, who seemed to be holding back a horde 10 deep of Pacer victims who I assume would have arrived from New Mills, Glossop or Hadfield.

 

[thenorthern]

The inspectors were positioned at the doors of the glass screens today, rather than at the platform throats, so passengers could disperse to uncongested doors, but the air in the concourse seemed to closer to outside temperature than usual.

The exception was Northern's inspectors on Platforms 1-3, who seemed to be holding back a horde 10 deep of Pacer victims who I assume would have arrived from New Mills, Glossop or Hadfield.

There were Virgin and CrossCountry inspectors at every glass door when I was there and the queues of Macclesfield passengers stretched down the whole train which was 11 coaches.

I don't get where this mentality though of "Juping the train" has come from so many people I know don't think they should have to pay to use the train and bellive it's the rail company's fault for not checking tickets.

I once had a lecturer who said that it's perfectly fine to travel without a ticket and thought I was strange for having one until he got caught and the RPI didn't have sympathy for his 'not enough time when he changed trains excuse".

 

[yorkie]

....so hopefully charging them the full anytime any permitted fare at Piccadilly rather than the Virgin Only fare will reduce ticket less travel.

Anytime fare, yes. But why would Virgin do themselves out of revenue?!

The Virgin Only Anytime fare is still a full fare ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. The cheapest applicable Anytime ticket is what should be sold.

 

[syorksdeano]

Well I'm sat in Piccadilly at the moment and find it disgusting that no one has mentioned the Arriva Trains Wales crew with their green Hi Viz vests on..

So hello to them and get in the pub up from Burger King and get me a pint

 

[thenorthern]

Anytime fare, yes. But why would Virgin do themselves out of revenue?!

The Virgin Only Anytime fare is still a full fare ticket.

I thought I overheard someone be charged that but it may have been another station they were traveling from.

I am sure I have been on a pendo from Piccadilly and a free rider to Macclesfield got charged the full any permitted fare which I think is set by Northern and they weren't very happy.

 

[Emyr]

Well I'm sat in Piccadilly at the moment and find it disgusting that no one has mentioned the Arriva Trains Wales crew with their green Hi Viz vests on..

So hello to them and get in the pub up from Burger King and get me a pint

Their dark green waistcoats aren't very visible!


(though I did use their door to access the concourse this morning)

 

[Starmill]

I've never seen ATW nor EMT revenue at Piccadilly participating before. Do Northern have a revenue departmentany more? I think it's just the STM Monkeys adn some assistant ticket sellers on the other side.

 

[thenorthern]

I've never seen ATW nor EMT revenue at Piccadilly participating before. Do Northern have a revenue departmentany more? I think it's just the STM Monkeys adn some assistant ticket sellers on the other side.

I think its just standard ticket inspectors I don't think the Northern inspectors based at Piccadilly can issue anything but the fare that passengers would have got on the train as there are too many unstaffed stations on the local trains into Piccadilly its hard to distinguish although I would say they definitely pay their way in collecting otherwise lost revenue.

I don't think East Midlands Trains have any staff based at Piccadilly but I may be wrong.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Northern normally do ticket checks on platforms 1 and 2 as well.

I suppose with Piccadilly is harder to do a complete ticket check compared to Birmingham New Street as there are many ways to access the platforms where as at New St there is only 2 ways.

I am normally on the London - Manchester train and I would say that around half the passengers who board at Macclesfield and Stoke don't have a ticket so hopefully charging them the full anytime any permitted fare at Piccadilly rather than the Virgin Only fare will reduce ticket less travel.

How so very dare you sir, implying that nearly half of those boarding at Stoke have actually bought tickets!

Seriously, ticket checks are rare between Stoke and Manchester, thus the temptation exists. Often the train manager, despite long winded PA rhetoric about ticket purchase / validities etc. prior to departure from Manchester, will then pass through the train selling lots of tickets at seemingly normal prices. The number of ticketless travellers astounds me. Surprisingly, many only require a single as well (how did they get there in the morning or how will they get home later?).

Better revenue enforcement is required all round, but this must be accompanied by better opportunities to buy tickets - have you seen the queues at Piccadilly - even for the vending machines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The inspectors were positioned at the doors of the glass screens today, rather than at the platform throats, so passengers could disperse to uncongested doors, but the air in the concourse seemed to closer to outside temperature than usual.

The exception was Northern's inspectors on Platforms 1-3, who seemed to be holding back a horde 10 deep of Pacer victims who I assume would have arrived from New Mills, Glossop or Hadfield.

That'll be for special decontamination prior to dispersal into the city centre - Mr Briss' special stuff still on sale in Hadfield?

 

[thenorthern]

How so very dare you sir, implying that nearly half of those boarding at Stoke have actually bought tickets!

Seriously, ticket checks are rare between Stoke and Manchester, thus the temptation exists. Often the train manager, despite long winded PA rhetoric about ticket purchase / validities etc. prior to departure from Manchester, will then pass through the train selling lots of tickets at seemingly normal prices. The number of ticketless travellers astounds me. Surprisingly, many only require a single as well (how did they get there in the morning or how will they get home later?).

Better revenue enforcement is required all round, but this must be accompanied by better opportunities to buy tickets - have you seen the queues at Piccadilly - even for the vending machines.

At Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield there is no problem for buying tickets it just people don't want to buy them because I am going to say it bluntly they are simply low life scum who are sponging of the railway simply because they don't feel they should pay for a service that they are using.

At Piccadilly there is a queue most of the time yes and its hard to chose between tickets for today and tickets for later.

A fun game me an some other passengers is to tweet to Virgin Trains when the inspector comes a picture of them collecting fares. Another passenger always says to the conductor "I am glad to see you as you are getting all the free riders to pay as its ridiculous the amount of passengers who don't" which annoys quite a few people around him but they can't say anything as they are in the wrong not him.

 

[Starmill]

I don't think East Midlands Trains have any staff based at Piccadilly but I may be wrong.

Well, no, but nor do ATW...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield there is no problem for buying tickets it just people don't want to buy them because I am going to say it bluntly they are simply low life scum who are sponging of the railway simply because they don't feel they should pay for a service that they are using.

It could also be because, particularly from Stoke, the price of Any Permitted walk-up tickets is waaaaaaaay too high.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could also be because, particularly from Stoke, the price of Any Permitted walk-up tickets is waaaaaaaay too high.

Off-peak return £15.90. Comparable to a similar length of journey into London.

Anytime Day Return £17.10. Way cheaper than the same ticket would be into London - you'd be looking at over twice that.

Weekly season £72.00. Again, in the South East it'd be nearer the hundred quid mark.

I don't see what you're complaining about, unless it's "fares in general are too high" - which they probably are - but that's a totally different issue and has to do with the proportion of farepayer-taxpayer funding to the railway.

Neil

 

[Starmill]

Off-peak return £15.90. Comparable to a similar length of journey into London.

Anytime Day Return £17.10. Way cheaper than the same ticket would be into London - you'd be looking at over twice that.

Weekly season £72.00. Again, in the South East it'd be nearer the hundred quid mark.

Well first of all I didn't initiate a comparison in London / South East terms. For a start there are only 4 fast trains an hour, many route in the south have a lot more than that. The fare is set by CrossCountry, which far exceeds those of other operators in this area. Now here is food for thought - if it is £15.90 from Stoke, and you think that is about right, why is it £13.80 from a station further away? Also why is there a VT Only ticket for £11.20.

I don't see what you're complaining about, unless it's "fares in general are too high" - which they probably are - but that's a totally different issue and has to do with the proportion of farepayer-taxpayer funding to the railway.

Neil

That's what you have been told by the government - and like a lot of people on here, you have swallowed it.

 

[thenorthern]

It could also be because, particularly from Stoke, the price of Any Permitted walk-up tickets is waaaaaaaay too high.

They are rather expensive hence why there is a Virgin Only ticket and its odd that a walk up Off-Peak Any Permitted return is cheaper from Tutbury and Hatton by over £1 than it is from Stoke-on-Trent thouch looking at similar distances in the South East Luton to London is £26.70 and Cheddington to London is £23.20 so maybe Stoke-Manchester isn't that bad.

The simple fact is this I would like to be able to do the journey every day First Class with a full vegetarian English breakfast and a the Daily Mail but I don't simply because it is out of my price range. People may think the cost of the ticket is unfair but that's the fare and if they don't like it then they should use another means of transport. Simple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well first of all I didn't initiate a comparison in London / South East terms. For a start there are only 4 fast trains an hour, many route in the south have a lot more than that. The fare is set by CrossCountry, which far exceeds those of other operators in this area. Now here is food for thought - if it is £15.90 from Stoke, and you think that is about right, why is it £13.80 from a station further away? Also why is there a VT Only ticket for £11.20.

Two quid on a ticket of fifteen quid is noise level in the messy fare system we have.

As for the VT Only ticket, that's yield management again - VT have empty seats, so they fill them by charging a lower fare.

That's what you have been told by the government - and like a lot of people on here, you have swallowed it.

How, giving a costed example, do you think we should reduce fares in this area without impacting income?

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

How, giving a costed example, do you think we should reduce fares in this area without impacting income?

Reduce all off-peak fares by 10%.
Introduce evening peak restrictions between 4pm and 6.30pm as far as Stoke, Crewe, Chester, Sheffield... you get the idea.

 

[oddiesjack]

Today, at around 08:30, there were ticket inspectors on Platform 1 at the foot of the stairs from the footbridge mid-way down the platform. I have never seen that before, and couldn't understand the rationale for this - especially as the usual inspectors were not by the buffer stops, but were by the glass doors leading out into the concourse (so any free-riders could simply go round the buffers between the main station platforms).

With regard to there never being any EMT inspectors, surely the Northern ones on the footbridge barrier and at the end of platform 10/11 do the ticket checks for passengers coming off EMT trains anyway?

 

[Merseysider]

Today, at around 08:30, there were ticket inspectors on Platform 1 at the foot of the stairs from the footbridge mid-way down the platform. I have never seen that before, and couldn't understand the rationale for this - especially as the usual inspectors were not by the buffer stops, but were by the glass doors leading out into the concourse (so any free-riders could simply go round the buffers between the main station platforms).

With regard to there never being any EMT inspectors, surely the Northern ones on the footbridge barrier and at the end of platform 10/11 do the ticket checks for passengers coming off EMT trains anyway?

Yes, as all EMT trains pass through P13/14 on their way to/from Liverpool. As their services make up less than 5% of all services at Man Picc, there would be no real incentive for them to have their own revenue staff present.

 

[thenorthern]

With regard to there never being any EMT inspectors, surely the Northern ones on the footbridge barrier and at the end of platform 10/11 do the ticket checks for passengers coming off EMT trains anyway?

Most the big East Midlands Trains managed stations have barriers or they have tried to install them as I think barriers is something they like so I don't think they would object to a ticket check.

Northern Rail are also a fan of barriers at big stations as well but Transpennie Express seem to try and avoid them. CrossCountry don't manage any stations so don't think their opinion matters.

Thinking about it though ticketless travel on all trains from Stoke-on-Trent is a major problem and not just Virgin Trains, whenever I have been on the East Midlands trains the amount of Stoke-on-Trent College/Sixth form college students in the evenings travelling to Blythe Bridge and Longton who are going home and only need a single ticket and have forgotten to get one before they boarded the train............. Its a shame the East Midlands Trains Penalty Fare scheme can't be extended there as it would stop the low life free riders who cram the train up and moan that there is only one coach.

I think London Midland penalty fares apply from Stoke-on-Trent but I am not sure.