Virgin's cycle policy

[umontu]

I may want to take my bike on a Virgin trains service. They say they have space for four bikes and they seem to encourage booking a space for your bike.
I'm not 100% sure I want to take my bike yet though so I may end up only booking it at the last minute.
What would happen if the spaces were used up? Would I not be allowed to board the train with my bike? This has been no problem on other toc's so I would hope that would be the case.

 

[Mark_re]

Virgin can be (will be) pretty fascist about their cycle policy, so if I were you, make the reservation and burn it if you don't use it. I will be corrected, but I don't think you need a ticket for travel to make a bike reservation, so you could even make a few.

 

[allticketspls]

Virgin can be (will be) pretty fascist about their cycle policy, so if I were you, make the reservation and burn it if you don't use it. I will be corrected, but I don't think you need a ticket for travel to make a bike reservation, so you could even make a few.

We are NOT facist about cycle policy. The reason we have a compulsory reservation policy is that a Pendolino has space for 4 bikes. We may only board 2 at Euston but there may be others booked further up the line (i.e. Milton Keynes) that we on the platforms at Euston do not know about.

Therefore by ensuring you have a reservation, we are not causing problems for passengers boarding further on and also reducing the chance of delaying a service.

Remember, Bike reservations are free and can be obtained up to the time a service departs (space permitting). If you have a fold-up bike, no reservation is required.

 

[cyclebytrain]

We are NOT facist about cycle policy. The reason we have a compulsory reservation policy is that a Pendolino has space for 4 bikes. We may only board 2 at Euston but there may be others booked further up the line (i.e. Milton Keynes) that we on the platforms at Euston do not know about.

Therefore by ensuring you have a reservation, we are not causing problems for passengers boarding further on and also reducing the chance of delaying a service.

Well, I've (personally) seen one of your colleagues try and stop bikes with reservations boarding at Euston and according to ticket office staff at Euston it isn't an uncommon problem.

Given that, I'd say a warning about potential problems is quite appropriate.

 

[Yew]

All that space on a pendolino and only four bike spaces? An EMT 158 has two on it, and thats onyl two carriages long!

 

[Asian Demon]

Well, I've (personally) seen one of your colleagues try and stop bikes with reservations boarding at Euston and according to ticket office staff at Euston it isn't an uncommon problem.

Given that, I'd say a warning about potential problems is quite appropriate.

I'd have to disagree with you entirely there. The simple fact is the reservation policy exists due to limited space for the cycles. I for one make sure that if you have a cycle reservation then you will be allowed to board your service with your cycle. If you don't then you will be told to go and get one from the ticket office prior to boarding. If you have personally seen an individual not let someone on with a cycle reservation (bar the situation below), I'm surprised to hear it.

I can only think of one situation where this may happen and it is generally down to people coming down to the train with a cycle 3 or so minutes prior to departure. A cycle needs to be boarded and secured in place and it is advised that if a person is boarding a cycle onto the train, to make sure that they come to the train at least 10 minutes prior to departure. This is advised by the ticket office.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

All that space on a pendolino and only four bike spaces? An EMT 158 has two on it, and thats onyl two carriages long!

The design of the pendolino sadly. Not much us staff can really do about it. 2 at the front of the train and 2 at the rear of the train. I don't agree with it either but there is very little we can do besides enforce it.

 

[WestCoast]

All that space on a pendolino and only four bike spaces? An EMT 158 has two on it, and thats onyl two carriages long!

This thread is reminding me of the time when I sat in the Bicycle Carriage on an NS train in the Netherlands. You could have got 50+ bikes in there, they are rather fond of cycling over there though!

They'd be horrified at the thought of only 4 bikes per train!

 

[Failed Unit]

I remember when the 156s were removed from the far north line, the outcry there was 2 per set down from at least 6 on the 156. To be honest most IC don't have much space. Even east coast DVT can only take 6. Don't think the HSTs do much better. Scotrails 156s are probably the best.

 

[cyclebytrain]

I'd have to disagree with you entirely there. The simple fact is the reservation policy exists due to limited space for the cycles. I for one make sure that if you have a cycle reservation then you will be allowed to board your service with your cycle. If you don't then you will be told to go and get one from the ticket office prior to boarding. If you have personally seen an individual not let someone on with a cycle reservation (bar the situation below), I'm surprised to hear it.

I don't have an issue with needing a reservation -I think it makes sense. Trying to turn people that have a valid reservation away on the other hand...

That it's a common problem is just hearsay. That it has happened is (unfortunately) not.

 

[CosherB]

Ah! No problem back in the the days of the mk3s and DVT. Plenty of bike room in a DVT!

 

[PaulLothian]

A cycle needs to be boarded and secured in place and it is advised that if a person is boarding a cycle onto the train, to make sure that they come to the train at least 10 minutes prior to departure. This is advised by the ticket office.

Quite a challenge at any station on the route apart from the starting point!

 

[Greenback]

Quite a challenge at any station on the route apart from the starting point!

In fairness, it was a discussion about whether cyclists with reservations have been prevented from boarding at Euston!

 

[western Champion]

Cycles are stored in the storage area behind the cab in the 692 vehicle and has space for four cycles. Any more than that blocks entry / exit to and from the driving cab. The identical space in the 691 (Kitchen) vehicle is a catering stowage area.

 

[TomJ93]

I had my bike at BHM on Thursday, asked NR staff could I put my bike on and he said to go get a reservation etc, by the time i'd have had one of them I would be trying to get the bike on at the last minute, with everyone rushing to get on at the last minute, I didn't really fancy it, so I bunged it and myself on an LM. I said to him I'm only going as far as Coventry, which I thought would make sense to let me on w/o a reservation.

Of course I checked Coach A at Coventry (my LM got there before it) no bikes at all :roll:

 

[PaulLothian]

In fairness, it was a discussion about whether cyclists with reservations have been prevented from boarding at Euston!

I was relating it back to the location of the OP and the orginal enquiry!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Snooker the lot of 'em and do what I did.....buy a Brompton.
No restrictions anywhere at any time!

 

[yorkie]

If it's the same as East Coast, then even if you are going one stop and there is space, you may be refused unless you have a reservation - but reservations are available right up to departure, so it's not really a major problem (unless you are boarding from a station where the ticket office is closed, then I'd hope the guard would be understanding)

Unfortunately, last time I checked, XC and TPE close reservations the night before (but TPE don't mind if you don't have a reservation - space permitting).

Well, I've (personally) seen one of your colleagues try and stop bikes with reservations boarding at Euston and according to ticket office staff at Euston it isn't an uncommon problem.

Given that, I'd say a warning about potential problems is quite appropriate.

Unfortunately I hear many problems about staff behaviour at the gateline at Euston. I am sure the members of this forum are not in any way engaging in the business of refusing valid tickets/reservations, but unfortunately some gateline staff are. And several complaints later, the problems persist. Clearly, there are some issues with some staff there. It is a shame that a small minority of badly behaved RPIs are giving the team a bad name.

Examples include:
* Not allowing a Travelcard +extension because the Travelcard was on Oyster (which is irrelevant) and telling the customer to buy a new ticket.
* Not allowing a more expensive route Banbury ticket (the excess was £0.00) and telling the customer to buy a new ticket.
* Telling a customer with an Alexandra Palace - Alexandra Parade ticket that their ticket "must be a season ticket" and denying him entry, then eventually accepting it wasn't but then denying via Manchester is a valid route, eventually they admitted their mistake.
* Refusing to accept valid tickets and refusing to look up the restriction code up themselves, simply declaring all Off Peak tickets invalid because some Off Peak tickets are invalid at that time.

It's unacceptable and anyone using Euston needs to be careful to know your rights, if your ticket/reservation is valid make sure you assert that it is valid and do not let them bully you. Also, if barrier staff do obstruct you, get their name and make a complaint, as it's important that the ones responsible are dealt with and not allowed to give the good staff there a bad name.

 

[brianthegiant]

If you have issues with Virgin cycle policy I would suggest talking to the CTC (cycle touring club) who are probably the most active group lobbying on railway cycle policy on a national level.
www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4801

There are also local groups like the London Cycling Campaign.
http://lcc.org.uk/

I know some TOCs run stakeholder meetings at which groups like the CTC would attend. Certainly Pedals the Nottingham cycle campaign attend the EMT stakeholder meetings & raise cycle issues to do with trains & stations

True that Virgin are in my experience the least pragmatic when it comes to bike reservations. Reservations make sense if you're doing a long journey. But if you're only going one stop as part of a regular journey and you know the bike lockers are always empty for that journey.... then it can seem a bit dystopian.

In Virgin's defence, I think Pendolino is the only train I've used where a passenger cannot open the external door to the bike locker (needs a square key), presumably the driver/train manager/despatch staff can use the reservation system to know when to go & unlock it? (I cant see any good reason why that door couldnt have had an 'open/close' button...).

I sincerely hope the IEPs have a better arrangement...I did enquire about cycle space requirements in the original spec, but it was very vague....

Folding bikes are great...if you're only going a mile or two at the end, but rubbish for longer distances.

 

[danfitz123]

I have seen people storing about 7 bikes on a class 175. That said, it was a Manc-Milf service. I think that the virgin trains policy is much to do with them not paying out for someones damaged bike.

This is the way forward

 

[wibble]

I remember when the 156s were removed from the far north line, the outcry there was 2 per set down from at least 6 on the 156. To be honest most IC don't have much space. Even east coast DVT can only take 6. Don't think the HSTs do much better. Scotrails 156s are probably the best.

SWT's Class 444s have 6 cycle spaces per 5 car unit - so there are up to 12 spaces available on many services.

 

[brianthegiant]

This is the way forward

Sure it might be simpler for TOCs if they didnt have to carry full sized bikes at all.....

But I've tried both a Dahon speed TR (folding "touring" bike) and a steel framed road bike for my daily commute & I will always take the road bike unless I'm doing crowded trains.

Here are a few reasons why some might not want to ride a folding bike:

-significantly more expensive
-smaller wheel size is great for short journeys with lots of stop/start, but terrible for cycling fast or for longer distances
-folding bikes are less robust than full sized commuter bikes, so more trouble if used for a daily commute
-folding bikes unsuited to taller people
-folding bikes unsuited to cycle touring / sports / rough terrain.

travelling by bike and train is fundamentally symbiotic, better cycle storage at stations and on trains means more punters.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

I'd have to disagree with you entirely there. The simple fact is the reservation policy exists due to limited space for the cycles. I for one make sure that if you have a cycle reservation then you will be allowed to board your service with your cycle. If you don't then you will be told to go and get one from the ticket office prior to boarding. If you have personally seen an individual not let someone on with a cycle reservation (bar the situation below), I'm surprised to hear it.

I can only think of one situation where this may happen and it is generally down to people coming down to the train with a cycle 3 or so minutes prior to departure. A cycle needs to be boarded and secured in place and it is advised that if a person is boarding a cycle onto the train, to make sure that they come to the train at least 10 minutes prior to departure. This is advised by the ticket office.

Disagree with this bit, sorry! Maybe at Euston it is, but I've had people booking bikes onto your services here in Liverpool and I get no mention of having to board 10 minutes prior to departure when I make the reservation.

 

[spacehopper]

Class 180- when on FGW bike storage area could only be accessed by staff. Also briefed out to stick them in rear as drivers had misgivings about them being in the front. Don't know what current HT / GC policy is.

 

[Asian Demon]

Disagree with this bit, sorry! Maybe at Euston it is, but I've had people booking bikes onto your services here in Liverpool and I get no mention of having to board 10 minutes prior to departure when I make the reservation.

Tbh I can only quote for what happens at Euston being as I work there. Obviously if this is something which is not being communicated elsewhere then it's something that needs to be brought up. Saying that it isn't a strict policy more something we advise as was stated in my post.

I agree the system as a whole isn't perfect but it's better than a free for all. I can only imagine what would happen if all bikes were just let on with no oversight. As for the concept of good and bad staff, sadly it's a fact of all TOC's not just Virgin. I for one try to make sure that I'll only advise on something I know and if I don't I'll take the customer to someone who can help them.

I'll be honest. Cycle reservations in their current form don't work well enough. Not enough information is provided and even when it is, people still choose to chance taking a bike down to the barrier and hoping it'll be let on (personal experience of dealing with it myself).

If anything needs to improve, it should be that cycle reservations should be made at the time of booking/buying a ticket and a small charge made to secure it. On-line booking (as an example) would mean that a person would not get a nasty shock if, lets say they have an advance ticket for a service but when they go to make a cycle reservation on the phone/at the station there isn't space available. The charge is more to do with stopping people abusing such a system by making multiple cycle bookings and in effect causing other people to not be allowed to take their bikes on-board further along a route. A pound might be a good cost for this. (As stated it's a idea).

Anyhow the only time I have ever not let someone with a cycle is when they don't have a reservation, or where they've got one but for a prior or later service (This happened to me this Friday as it so happens and the customer kicked off because he would not accept that his cycle reservation for the 40 mins past service was not valid on the 20mins service past, or wanted to listen to the fact that he had plenty of time to go get a cycle reservation and still catch this train).

 

[cyclebytrain]

From the passenger side, I pretty much completely agree with everything Asian Demon has said. The big thing I think he hasn't covered is that the call centre and gateline need to get on the same page about whether you can just quote the reservation number, or if you need the print out (for the record; I think print out/coupon being required is sensible otherwise people will try and just make up a reference number) -but if the call centre keep being adamant that "oh no, they can just check the number" then either that needs to happen, or the call centre needs sorting out.

On a slight side note, the grape vine tells me that there's currently a crack down on unreserved bikes because they've caused a lot of problems recently.

 

[Asian Demon]

From the passenger side, I pretty much completely agree with everything Asian Demon has said. The big thing I think he hasn't covered is that the call centre and gateline need to get on the same page about whether you can just quote the reservation number, or if you need the print out (for the record; I think print out/coupon being required is sensible otherwise people will try and just make up a reference number) -but if the call centre keep being adamant that "oh no, they can just check the number" then either that needs to happen, or the call centre needs sorting out.

On a slight side note, the grape vine tells me that there's currently a crack down on unreserved bikes because they've caused a lot of problems recently.

I've not been working in my job with virgin long but being able to quote the reservation number is news to me I'll be honest. I've always said to anyone who will listen that printing out a coupon is always the best policy. A person at barriers will be checking tickets for a train that will be leaving in 20 minutes (less in some cases where something has happened). The last thing a person wants to be doing (on both customer side and barrier staff side) is holding everyone else up who wants to board because their reservation number has to be called up. Personally I'd suggest printing the coupons out no matter what. I'll ask about it in work on Friday. I'd be interested to see what's made of this.

 

[krus_aragon]

If it's the same as East Coast, then even if you are going one stop and there is space, you may be refused unless you have a reservation

I've often taken my bicycle on Voyagers for one or two stops along the North Wales Coast, without seeking a reservation or the permission of staff. If I were going long distance, I'd go get one.

 

[brianthegiant]

I suspect many in the CTC might not agree with me, but I think there could be some mileage in a nominal cycle reservation fee if the additional funds raised were ringfenced to:
A) Make cycle reservations available at ALL ticket machines / websites / etc
(I think gaps in the above is currently part of the problem, at the moment getting cycle reservations is a lot of hassle, even many ticket office staff get confused by booking cycle reservations)
B) make a commitment to increase provision of cycle space on trains and secure cycle parking at stations

Until A is resolved then I think any crackdown on non-reservations is likely to be resisted by cyclists, especially those doing journeys where overcrowding is not an issue.

 

[Holly]

How much "improved" the railways are since 1970. :roll:

At that time, in the depths of winter, my boyfriend and I (on the pillion) would regularly ride his Czechoslovakian motorcycle to Euston being sure it was almost out of fuel (not as easy as it sounds).
With tickets for ourselves and another for the bike he would push it onto the platform where the staff would let him drain the last few dregs of petrol and dump it on the railbed.
Then load and tie down the bike in the guards van and ride to Crewe.
On arrival at Crewe came the hardest part - unloading the bike with a substantial height drop to the platform. Push the bike a short distance to a nearby petrol station and ride off to visit relatives in Cheshire.

How times change! There was a time when railways provided a service, now they just grab as much money from the government as they can and make the rules as complicated as possible so we are almost certain to break them. While completely barring the staff from applying common sense to unusual situations.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

How much "improved" the railways are since 1970. :roll:

At that time, in the depths of winter, my boyfriend and I (on the pillion) would regularly ride his Czechoslovakian motorcycle to Euston being sure it was almost out of fuel (not as easy as it sounds).
With tickets for ourselves and another for the bike he would push it onto the platform where the staff would let him drain the last few dregs of petrol and dump it on the railbed.
Then load and tie down the bike in the guards van and ride to Crewe.
On arrival at Crewe came the hardest part - unloading the bike with a substantial height drop to the platform. Push the bike a short distance to a nearby petrol station and ride off to visit relatives in Cheshire.

How times change! There was a time when railways provided a service, now they just grab as much money from the government as they can and make the rules as complicated as possible so we are almost certain to break them. While completely barring the staff from applying common sense to unusual situations.

My common sense says that your 1000kg+ of motor bike is going nowhere near my passengers...