Voyager on olympic test to WEYMOUTH

[Eagle]

The FGW additional service will probably be more than two carriages and the normal services will be strengthened by additional units too. Seems likely that an HST might be put to use of Cardiff-Taunton services to free up additional units.

I know, I was just stating the absolute minimum numbers.


Anyway, I think we've proved that the number of ticketholders alone (4,600 per day) more than justifies the need for these services, without even beginning to speculate how many non-ticketholders will also wish to travel. Can I suggest we all prudently move on?

 

[Clip]

For the former, this cannot be profitable for the reasons I've highlighted (cost of HST lease + cost of track access + cost of path - minimal extra revenue earned from the service). . I am forced to conclude in this instance that either: XC is happy to make a loss on this (unlikely) or the taxpayer will fork out (likely).
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Im sorry but how can you say minimal revenue earned from this service? You ahve no idea how many people will be using it do you? It could be packed to the rafters and probably will be too.
How can you possibly claim they are willing to make a loss on this? You have no facts to back up anything you are saying and its frustrating to read such posts when it has been pointed out time and again the amount of tickets for the events and the fact that people could also watch it for free.

I also work in the private sector and I also approach things from an economic perspective - especially with peoples fantasy station and line openings/routings. But in this instance I can fully see that they will make money from this excecise and they are doing something to assist people in getting to the Olympic events.

Im pretty sure folk would moan if they didnt provide any extra capacity for a large sporting event in the middle of British Summer time.

 

[calc7]

Im sorry but how can you say minimal revenue earned from this service? You ahve no idea how many people will be using it do you? It could be packed to the rafters and probably will be too.
How can you possibly claim they are willing to make a loss on this? You have no facts to back up anything you are saying and its frustrating to read such posts when it has been pointed out time and again the amount of tickets for the events and the fact that people could also watch it for free.

I also work in the private sector and I also approach things from an economic perspective - especially with peoples fantasy station and line openings/routings. But in this instance I can fully see that they will make money from this excecise and they are doing something to assist people in getting to the Olympic events.

Anyone fancy doing a FoI to whoever organises the Games transport?! I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong here.
Im pretty sure folk would moan if they didnt provide any extra capacity for a large sporting event in the middle of British Summer time.

ORCATS - how can a few hundred Voyager seat sales between Bournemouth and Weymouth (most of the marginal income) justify the lease of a HST (by the mile has been ascertained in this thread), the staff costs and the track access charges. Can you not see that this service is likely to be a loss-maker and, if so, will be propped up from the public purse?

 

[Eagle]

Can you not see that this service is likely to be a loss-maker and, if so, will be propped up from the public purse?

And so what if it is? The entire Olympics is a massive loss-maker.

I've already shown these services are needed. Whether or not they pay for themselves or just have to be added to the Olympic budget is immaterial.

 

[calc7]

And so what if it is? The entire Olympics is a massive loss-maker.

I've already shown these services are needed. Whether or not they pay for themselves or just have to be added to the Olympic budget is immaterial.

As a taxpayer, I am not jumping to the rooftops with that. What rubs salt in the wound is that day in, day out, people are paying rip-off fares to stand on Voyagers up and down the country, but apparently when a quango clicks his fingers a HST comes out of nowhere.

 

[Eagle]

As a taxpayer, I am not jumping to the rooftops with that. What rubs salt in the wound is that day in, day out, people are paying rip-off fares to stand on Voyagers up and down the country, but apparently when a quango clicks his fingers a HST comes out of nowhere.

Do you actually know what a quango is? :P A quasi-autonomous non-governmental organization. Nothing to do with the Olympics is non-governmental.


Would you rather that there be no extra capacity to Weymouth for the Olympics, causing mass overcrowding on the railways?

 

[calc7]

Do you actually know what a quango is? :P A quasi-autonomous non-governmental organization. Nothing to do with the Olympics is non-governmental.


Would you rather that there be no extra capacity to Weymouth for the Olympics, causing mass overcrowding on the railways?

Apologies - Quango is probably the wrong word but hopefully I got my thought across - somebody in ATOC/XC/wherever arse-licking somebody in power (I have no evidence for this, just my cynicism!)

What is this mass overcrowding? It will be against the peak flow. Whilst 4,600 tickets may have been sold, how many will be coming from the Birmingham to Bournemouth corridor? And, given that many people will go in couples/families/groups of friends, how many of those will realistically pay XC train prices over driving or staying overnight? If anything, a shuttle service to and from Weymouth to connect with the main raft of services would be more appropriate.

 

[Eagle]

What is this mass overcrowding? It will be against the peak flow.

This "peak flow" you keep banging on about is really minuscule coming from Weymouth. Trust me, I live in Dorset. There will be far more people travelling towards Weymouth than away from it.

And as for driving, have you considered that a sizeable proportion of people *shock* don't have a car? And also that a considerable proportion of people that do won't want to drive to Weymouth (the roads round there are hellish at all seasons) but would rather take a train right to the centre of the town rather than battling through ten or twenty miles of stop-start traffic—it's not uncommon for traffic to back up all the way to Bere Regis during the summer.

A little local knowledge goes a long way. :P

And I'm sorry, but the numbers have proved these services are totally necessary, no matter how distasteful that notion is to you. And as a taxpayer I'm happy to subsidize this, much like I subsidize a good deal of vital but loss-making rail services around the country.

 

[ushawk]

Pointless arguing that they wont be well used as it isnt a regular event and we dont know how well used they will be. However on paper, there will be enough people attending to justify running the service.

I expect the same people who are saying the extra XC are a waste of money would be the first to criticise XC for not running extra trains, causing overcrowding on SWT.

 

[calc7]

This "peak flow" you keep banging on about is really minuscule coming from Weymouth. Trust me, I live in Dorset. There will be far more people travelling towards Weymouth than away from it.

And as for driving, have you considered that a sizeable proportion of people *shock* don't have a car? And also that a considerable proportion of people that do won't want to drive to Weymouth (the roads round there are hellish at all seasons) but would rather take a train right to the centre of the town rather than battling through ten or twenty miles of stop-start traffic—it's not uncommon for traffic to back up all the way to Bere Regis during the summer.

A little local knowledge goes a long way. :P

And I'm sorry, but the numbers have proved these services are totally necessary, no matter how distasteful that notion is to you. And as a taxpayer I'm happy to subsidize this, much like I subsidize a good deal of vital but loss-making rail services around the country.

I don't have a car either (and don't want one). My response to that is - what is people's obsession with direct rail services in this country? I would be happy to change at Bournemouth for my journey on to Weymouth. Hence why a dedicated extra shuttle would not be such a bad idea, rather than a couple of specials that may or may not be full. Thank you for clarifying the roads situation - it is one part of the country I've rarely visited having grown up in the North, gone to uni in the West Midlands and living in London.

I am comparing this in my mind to the Summer Saturday Manchester to Newquay service. Another seasonal crunch (I've done the A30 on such a day - not pleasant) but apparently it isn't that full as most groups choose to go by car.

I think we'll have to agree to differ with our opinions on taxation.

 

[Eagle]

I think we'll have to agree to differ with our opinions on taxation.

You might reconsider when you look at how many rail services in the UK are loss-making (all of these, for instance) :P And that's not to consider how many bus services your taxes subsidize too.


And your point about a shuttle I agree with, maybe that would have worked better (but given the six miles of single track between Dorchester and Moreton it might not have been possible to path—and I'm guessing that the planners knew what they were doing ). I'm also annoyed by this notion that everywhere in Sussex has to have direct services to everywhere else; but for some travellers apparently it's an important thing, I guess.

 

[6Gman]

Apologies - Quango is probably the wrong word but hopefully I got my thought across - somebody in ATOC/XC/wherever arse-licking somebody in power (I have no evidence for this, just my cynicism!)

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Says it all really!

And one's personal views of the Olympics, Ben Ainslie, Lord Coe or anything else is irrelevant.

There is expected to be a significant flow opf passengers to a particular location, and the railway collectively is planning an extra resource to cope with that demand.

No different to the way I arranged trains for the Labour Party Conference (I'm not a Labour Party supporter), football matches (ditto) or indeed the Royal Train (I'm a Republican).

 

[snail]

ORCATS - how can a few hundred Voyager seat sales between Bournemouth and Weymouth (most of the marginal income) justify the lease of a HST (by the mile has been ascertained in this thread), the staff costs and the track access charges. Can you not see that this service is likely to be a loss-maker and, if so, will be propped up from the public purse?

Ooh, I wonder if it's being subsidised from the London 2012 budget? Just like the Zone 1-9 travelcards in London or Metrolink and bus journeys from Manchester city centre to Old Trafford?

Sample headline: "Shock! horror! Event organiser pays subsidy to get people there by public transport." :roll: