Wabtec Awarded Contract For £60M Class 321 Refurbishment Project.

[DasLunatic]

https://www.minds.com/newsfeed/669565723676254213

First (I think) day of proper use for the GN Bins. 419 is seen sandwiched between 339 and 328 on a Colchester Town shuttle yesterday afternoon.

 

[Class 170101]

No, one was use on Tuesday 17/01.

 

[Wivenswold]

321304 has returned North. I assume to have the new traction package installed. That leaves....er...no Renatus units in service. Though there's about 4 of the ex-GN 321s in service now, I've managed to avoid them completely so far.

 

[Alfie1014]

321304 has returned North. I assume to have the new traction package installed. That leaves....er...no Renatus units in service. Though there's about 4 of the ex-GN 321s in service now, I've managed to avoid them completely so far.

Managed to bag one yesterday (408) I note that the first class is uncahnged (i.e. the larger area compared to GA units) I wonder if that will change?

 

[iphone76]

Managed to bag one yesterday (408) I note that the first class is uncahnged (i.e. the larger area compared to GA units) I wonder if that will change?

I hope so. They did in the past when the LM 321s came over.

 

[Wivenswold]

Sat on 419 right now. Colour scheme isn't great but it does feel cosy with carpets and tables.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Been commuting for last couple of weeks on GEML on a regular basis after many years away and it's been interesting to see how things are going compared to almost ten years ago when I used to do it regularly!

Was on the new one myself, must say it's a good improvement over the unrefurbished ones and much more modern inside than they were and the Wifi and power sockets they added are going to be very useful, I never had a big issue with the 321s in general, but they were looking very tired in some respects before the refurbed units, as great a job as FGE did with them, they really do need the next refurbishment now.

However I still prefer a 360 in general, a solid built train if ever there was one, unbelievable to think they are 15 years old. I remember when they were new, still exceptionally quiet and rattle free and everything working well, sure the carpets faded a bit, and they had seat covers replaced, but I'll miss the flying saucer sound and them when they are gone. Guess they will get Wifi and sockets and be refurbished when they leave.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Desiros generally seem to be wearing very well indeed, with few rattles and internal panels being as solid as the day they entered service (and the "Teutonic slam" not having broken the doors yet). The carpets and seats seem to be of lower quality, but those are easily replaced - the /1s are well overdue a set of green seat covers.

Typisch deutsche Qualität!

 

[grumblingalong]

When you consider the age similarities between the Anglian desiro and turbostar fleets the desiros really shine through, a trip on some of the turbos is quite deafening for panel shake.

 

[samuelmorris]

When you consider the age similarities between the Anglian desiro and turbostar fleets the desiros really shine through, a trip on some of the turbos is quite deafening for panel shake.

It was back before the 360s had even been delivered to my recollection - I think that's more a design deficiency of the stock rather than anything to do with their age, not that that makes it any better :P

I will miss the 360s when they're gone, I only very seldom get to use them nowadays as they don't call at Shenfield in the peak direction, but they were my daily commute home from school when they were new, the difference between them and the 315s adjoining the same journey (especially prior to their first refurbishment) was considerable to say the least.

Despite having made several trips on 448 in its 'Demonstrator' guise, I have only even seen a Renatus unit once, let alone travelled on one. For all the press attention, one might argue they probably should have left a unit in service afterwards! They do look fairly promising, but with now less than 2 years until the first units of their successor due to arrive, much longer and there'll hardly be any point bothering. Is there any reason why the interior refurbishment and the traction package is being done separately for each unit? I assumed originally that sending the units to and fro Doncaster was simply due to them being the preliminary test units.

 

[Wivenswold]

Looks like 7 of the 10 GN Dusty Bins are now in service, haven't seen 405/409/420 out and about yet.

Modern Railways magazine suggests that an 8 car AC Renatus consist will return shortly for further testing of the new traction equipment, I assume it'll be 303/304.

Does anyone know whether 448 is sitting waiting for their return or is it out of service long term?

Oh and for Samuel Morris, I think you'll be lucky to see an AGA Aventra in service before the second half of 2019. The Stadlers should come on line at some point in 2018 but again, probably late in the year. It took FGE 6 months to fully introduce 21 Desiros back in 2003. The forthcoming replacement of an entire fleet in little more than 2 years will be one heck of a challenge.

 

[samuelmorris]

The franchise spec shown on http://maps.dft.gov.uk/east-anglia-franchise/ suggests February 2019 for 'Great Eastern' and 'West Anglia' - now the 'Great Eastern' could just be the infrequent calls made on the mainline by the Stowmarket service and 'West Anglia' could reflect StanEx units periodically being used to Cambridge, but is that really all that likely? Based on what's shown there, if they do turn up in H2 2019 (and I'm not saying it's all that unlikely), then they'll be several months late!

I would hazard a guess at having a very small number of units in service on one particular route by end of Q1 2019 if theyre on schedule, but it would probably be late summer at the earliest before there is a sufficient number of them to start displacing the existing stock.

 

[Alfie1014]

Oh and for Samuel Morris, I think you'll be lucky to see an AGA Aventra in service before the second half of 2019. The Stadlers should come on line at some point in 2018 but again, probably late in the year. It took FGE 6 months to fully introduce 21 Desiros back in 2003. The forthcoming replacement of an entire fleet in little more than 2 years will be one heck of a challenge.

I agree there is a mammoth task to delivery the fleet replacement by the dates proposed. On the assumption that the key date is 31/12/2019 and that the 30 Renatused 321s and 30 x 379s will be PRM compliant and that the minor non-compliances of the 21 360s can be temporarily derogated until replacement I make it that about 75 of the 5 car Aventras will need to be in service by this date!

 

[Kite159]

I must say those former GN 321s have come up well with the removal of the FCC vinyls, a nice dark purple. 420 was out on Friday night on a Southend service.

 

[jon0844]

I must say those former GN 321s have come up well with the removal of the FCC vinyls, a nice dark purple. 420 was out on Friday night on a Southend service.

They were only liveried on the bottom half weren't they? So I expected there to be a difference in colour after the vinyls were removed.

 

[sd0733]

The GN ones I saw looked more like the bottom halves had had a coat of purple paint over the bottom half where the vinyls were. May be wrong though.

 

[physics34]

The GN ones I saw looked more like the bottom halves had had a coat of purple paint over the bottom half where the vinyls were. May be wrong though.

its probably where the vinyl protected the paintwork from the elements therefore no fading

 

[nxea321446]

Couple of things to note, 321302 went to Doncaster on Tuesday for its renatus refurb & 321448 seen in the Wabtec yard this morning having arrived earlier this week.

 

[Shunter_69]

448 travelled up on Wednesday

 

[nxea321446]

321321 returned to Ilford this evening following its 14 month holiday in south yorkshire.

 

[Defiance149]

448 travelled up on Wednesday

321448 first went to Wolverton to collect 321303 and they both went to Doncaster.

 

[Wivenswold]

321355 and 321360 are reported to be in service following the DDA-light refresh that's being applied to non-renatus 321s and 317s. Red handles aplenty and new floor coverings by the look of the picture on twitter.

 

[Wivenswold]

Chatting to chap who is in the know. Delay on GA Aventra details down to them working out how to sugar coat less savoury aspects, No first class, no toilets and 3+2 seating. Good luck telling passengers, GA.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chatting to chap who is in the know. Delay on GA Aventra details down to them working out how to sugar coat less savoury aspects, No first class, no toilets and 3+2 seating. Good luck telling passengers, GA.

I can believe no 1st and 3+2, much as I think it's a stupid idea. But no toilets on middle to long-distance commuter/regional trains (unless they're having two subfleets with a separate one for the innersuburban work) is so ridiculous I actually don't believe it is likely to be true.

Aren't they 23m, anyway? Only the very wide 323s and 16x, the latter being built specifically for the wide Great Western loading gauge, are 23m with 3+2. Otherwise 23m vehicles tend to be too narrow for it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

No toilets is just asking for vomit and other bodily fluids everywhere on a saturday night.

 

[Pumbaa]

⅔ of the previous statement are true.

 

[Bletchleyite]

⅔ of the previous statement are true.

You mean there is no first class and it's 3+2 but there are bogs?

That's believable (if disappointing, as I thought 3+2 had genuinely had its day).

 

[Alfie1014]

From what I've seen there will be toilets, (4 in a 10 car and 2 in a 5 car, one of which is accessible), about the same as today's EMUs. No first class but in the driving cars this could be provided behind the cabs (as with the 360s). The layout is mostly 2+3 which I think is the most disapointing aspect of the design.

I think these are the only 2+3 seated trains being procurred for the network and as has been said only the 165s and 323s have 2+3 in non 20m vehicles. I know it's all about maximum (peak) capacity but the general consensus from the public is that in the main they prefer 2+2, especially off peak and on longer distance journeys. It's especially disapointing that it is intended to provide 2+3 seating right up to the vehicle ends in most cars. What's the point of having through gangways that encourage passengers to move through the train when they are incumbered by seats, at least have 2+2 in these areas! Also having gangways between the seats too narrow can discourage movement away from the door areas at busy times and with fewer doors overall 20 v 24 on a long set this could make boarding and alighting longer too.

We've only had fully open carriages for a short time and whilst they have their advantages in an emergency situation their design can aid (or hinder) evacuation. I wonder what 'real' modelling has been done on such a design on how passengers behave (and I mean with real passengers rather than in a computer model), to validate their use in all circumstances?

Lastly it appears ironic that a Shenfield passenger in few years will have the (limited) choice of seating in the 2+2 seats with armrests in the middle of a Crossrail train or if available squeezing in to the middle of a 3 seat with no armrests in a GA train for his or her journey into London!

 

[Alfie1014]

321355 and 321360 are reported to be in service following the DDA-light refresh that's being applied to non-renatus 321s and 317s. Red handles aplenty and new floor coverings by the look of the picture on twitter.

Slightly aside I travelled home on the 18:12 Liv St to Clacton on Monday evening it was a 12 car ex GN formation 4xx+418+419. First time I've seen a full blue 12 car in passenger service!

 

[Wivenswold]

Thank you Alfie, I should have emailed you to get that verified. It was a member of staff and the reason I posted the toilet info was in hope that someone had better info. It did seem ridiculous.