WAG Express Issues.

[The Signalman]

Oh dear, the Southbound WAG has collapsed at Salop at around 0825 HRS this morning (having lost time coming down from Crewe) with an air leak. 2 yellow class 97/3's had to drag it from platform 7 to Abbey Foregate Depot in order to clear the station.

Time for a review on the motive power situation maybe??

 

[175001]

It might be a good idea to put that 57 on the back again. At least then there is backup traction!

 

[The Signalman]

57314 came up from Cardiff to collect the WAG stock, then worked south with the 5Z31 Abbey Foregate LMD (Shrewsbury) to Canton ECS leaving Salop around 1400 HRS.
I think 57313 was collected by another 57 & has gone north for repairs.

 

[TDK]

It might be a good idea to put that 57 on the back again. At least then there is backup traction!

That is a good idea but I don't think they have the provision for that and also if it fails it will need to run round or go bang road, not ideal. I think they need a better maintenance program. A waste of money paid out by the Welsh tax payer so WAG members get a 1st class option to Cardiff. If it hits the news there will be an uproar.

 

[devon_metro]

The WAGex is frankly a FARCE.

It would be better if it went somewhere people in South Wales want to go. Manchester!! How much economic activity seriously happens on the north coast?

 

[tbtc]

The WAGex is frankly a FARCE.

It would be better if it went somewhere people in South Wales want to go. Manchester!! How much economic activity seriously happens on the north coast?

Agreed.

Back in the "Wales & West" days, there was one train a day from Holyhead to Cardiff. Now there's one every two hours. And that's still not enough, so the politicians have spent all this money on another service between the two (when actual demand to travel from one to the other is a lot lower than a direct service to places like Liverpool/ Manchester).

And as for not stopping at a large English town like Hereford... :roll:

 

[175001]

The WAGex is frankly a FARCE.
How much economic activity seriously happens on the north coast?

Quite a lot thank you very much, but most people want to go to Liverpool/Manchester/North West in General from the Coast.

From my experience, its mostly Young people like me,who use the North-South service and not the politicians........hey, I'm going to Cardiff from Bangor on Friday evening direct, and returning direct on the Sunday!

But yes, the WAG Express is a waste of money. It would be better spent on refurbishing the ATW 158's, which look dreadful around the vestibule areas!

 

[emoaconr]

I appreciate and frequently use the DMU Holyhead to Cardiff services, but the "WAG Express" is more pointless than a chocolate teapot. Not only does it bypass a large Welsh population centre through the Chester-Shrewsbury line, its limited stops on the North Wales Coast Line and in South Wales and total bypass of Hereford allows only a handful of stops where passengers can alight or travel to which are actually in Wales. Its no wonder people in the North are critical of the WAG. The only benefit I'd see of using it over the existing services would be if I had the money and time (little of both!) to travel in the lap of luxury on a loco-hauled service!

On a more positive note, if you live near a principle station, it's probably decent if you're going south. I've not used it myself (since its routed through Crewe), but I'd rather the money be raked into improving the existing services, which seem to be well used.

The 2-hourly CDF-HHD normal DMU services are very well appreciated, a vast improvement on previous services. People (including the WAG themselves) seem to underestimate North Wales as a whole, but there has always been demand for such services. Wrexham is a large town, and then Rhyl and Llandudno are the second and third biggest settlements in North Wales, and are popular in summer months. Its got nothing to do with where "people from South Wales want to go"; the CDF-HHD links brings easier transport between North and South Wales in a country where there are no decent north-south roads.

 

[merlodlliw]

Good morning everyone.

£7600 a day subsidy to run what is the most failure prone train in Wales
what more can one say. As the above thread says if the press got hold of this, well they have now.

 

[The Signalman]

Actually the title of most unreliable train in Wales (or operated those by ATW) could easily by applied to their 158's & 175's as just about every other one that passes through Salop seems to require fitters attention of varying degress!

Brakes/Computer faults with 175's togeather with overheating/engine faults & brakes not releasing on 158's seem to be the most common problems.

Plus when a 153 sits down on the HoW as they do from time to time (like this week in fact with one with engine issues) its a long wait for a rescue to arrive.

When the 57's run-round at Salop on the Kronospan jobs we have very few issues with them as indeed was the case when they were on the 'Pendo' jobs in North Wales in the past.

Which makes you wonder what Why the ATW 57's are having a few problems.

 

[merlodlliw]

Agreed.

Back in the "Wales & West" days, there was one train a day from Holyhead to Cardiff.

Yes I recall that service, WAG gave Wales & West £1m to trial the service,
it ran via Wrexham(yes Wrexham is in Wales) in the mornings and returned
ex Wrexham about 4.30p.m. it was of course a 158.
At the time Central were running brand new Bombardiers to Brum via Wrexham, anyhow I travelled the W&W to Holyhead one day,it was a strange
route, every station Chester to Holyhead OK some request On Mona,but the
strangest was Junction to Llandudno to Junction then Conwy, same on the
return, however the journey time Holyhead to Cardiff was 6 hours plus, it was
soon removed. Then W&W ran the Manchester via Shrewsbury to Waterloo
a 158 now that was failure ridden, it even featured on a BBC programme due
to its frequent failing and hardly any passengers.

 

[The Signalman]

ATW's 158's are in dire need of some help - god help us if they do end up being deployed on their new proposed Marylebone Jobs.

 

[merlodlliw]

Following on from the budget, WAG now have to save £290M as a result
of cuts from Westminister.

So this must mean goodbye Wag Express, £2m saving at a stroke.

 

[Techniquest]

Suits me, the most pointless service in the world.

Someone further up the thread commented that the WAGEx is hardly the most unreliable of ATW's fleet. Which is a fair point, the 175s are still prone to failing to some degree or another. That said, the staff at Chester really turned them around and failures are not as major as before, so some good news at least.

Have to say I'm glad I don't have to suffer the ATW 158s these days though, the FGW ones are so much better it's shocking!

 

[175001]

So this must mean goodbye Wag Express, £2m saving at a stroke.

They might even ask for the funding paid for the Wrexham improvements back from WSMR

 

[merlodlliw]

They might even ask for the funding paid for the Wrexham improvements back from WSMR

Tough that was from the same funding stream as Ebbw Vale,

anyhow have at read at the thread Andy Hamilton in Wrexham .

 

[The Planner]

I'll put money on the Wrexham Saltney scheme getting binned then.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'll put money on the Wrexham Saltney scheme getting binned then.

We God fearing souls in Wrexham have been told the dosh some £27M for this as been ring fenced, but as you say if the ring fence as not been energised
then it could be put on the gas back burner,or even the AGA, sorry not the AGA only N R Directors have those.

The full story will emerge on Monday at the SCURA meeting in Wrexham
where insiders will report. However top of the Bill is Andy Hamilton the boss
of W/S who will report on the future of W/S, should be a good meeting,raffle prize for spot the ATW spy.

see you

 

[tbtc]

They might even ask for the funding paid for the Wrexham improvements back from WSMR

If they did, then I can't see W&S running north of Shrewbury, and concentrating on the more lucrative Shropshire market... :roll:

 

[TEW]

Today for the first time a Full Virgin liveried Class 57 worked the WagEx. 57312 The Hood did the full round trip as all neutral or ATW liveried locos are out of use. Photos (not mine) can be seen here.

 

[merlodlliw]

If they did, then I can't see W&S running north of Shrewbury, and concentrating on the more lucrative Shropshire market... :roll:

Oh Oh, a few of you wish, anyhow there is no chance of the money being clawed back, WAG paid the money direct to NR who then contracted the Wrexham job to sub contractors.

Do I see WAG asking for the money back, more like WAG asking ATW for
£2m back for the WAG "Will it fail today" express.

 

[dylan_w]

Oh Oh, a few of you wish, anyhow there is no chance of the money being clawed back, WAG paid the money direct to NR who then contracted the Wrexham job to sub contractors.

Do I see WAG asking for the money back, more like WAG asking ATW for
£2m back for the WAG "Will it fail today" express.

He's just trying to wind you up again like he did on the W/S thread!

It's somewhat surprising that Virgin withdrew their services to Shropshire several years ago (with no hint of returning until W/S emerged) if they are as "lucrative" as this poster suggest! The Shropshire market is just as fragile as the North East Wales market and without growth W/S will probably withdraw from both rather than just repositioning themselves just to serve Telford and Shrewsbury. It almost makes me think that this has something to do with the fact that Wrexham is in North Wales so in many peoples minds it is less worthy of a decent service to London...

We could all chip in with pointless comments about areas we don't really have any expertise in with the sole purpose of winding other posters up: "I think EMT replacement of HSTs with 4 or 5 car Meridians/Pioneers on the Sheffield route is a winner, hopefully they will focus progressively more of their resources on the more lucrative Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire markets".

 

[Techniquest]

He's just trying to wind you up again like he did on the W/S thread!

With a lot of success clearly!

I'd chip in with some comment about the gentleman on this thread who keeps going on about WSMR, but I've already said it all before.

 

[The Signalman]

What I can say regarding WSMR taking into account that I see it most days at Salop is that on departing Salop on normal Monday to Fridays, my observation are that the first train southbound (1P01 - which will do Salop -MYB in just over 3 HRS) tends to be 65% full STD class & 75% full 1st class.

The 2nd train southbound (1P03) tends to be full & standing in STD (bearing in mind it DOES'NT call at Wolves) & is also about 40% full in 1st.
There are a lot of passengers on it that have boarded it north of Salop.

The 3rd southbound (1P13) tends to be 50% full STD & 20% 1st.

The last one (1P33 & starts at Salop) is about 65% full STD & 50% 1st.

Of the weekday northbounds the 1st one (1J80) is the quietest.
The 2nd northbound train (1J82 & terminates at Salop) is around 70% full STD & 20% in 1st.

However the busiest is the 3rd northbound (1J83- which does MYB-Salop in just over 3 HRS) with it being 90% full STD & 75% 1st. Plus a large number of passengers travelling beyond Salop.

At weekends & school holidays ALL the trains are well loaded especially in STD class. Some of which can be full & standing.

All this of course does'nt take in to account passengers alighting & boarding at Wellington, Telford & Cosford ETC.

I Hope this helps.

 

[tbtc]

It's somewhat surprising that Virgin withdrew their services to Shropshire several years ago (with no hint of returning until W/S emerged)

The one a day Shrewsbury service was an 87 dragged to/ from Wolverhampton IIRC (correct me if my memory is hazy).

Virgin cut back on a lot of "non core" services when they took over, concentrated on improving the basic network.

For example, they cut back on the Cross Country services to Kent. Withdrew from Blackpool. Pulled out of London Paddington. Even withdrew the Cross Country service to a big city like Liverpool...

Understandable, when taking over a company to stick to your core market at first, learning to walk before you can run etc. At the time they had an old fleet of engines and coaches, still running 47s and 87s on main services.

Now that they've got the new trains, and the WCML has been improved, there's scope to make improvements, such as the proposed route via Walsall.

It's the same on the ECML, with the initial operator (GNER) concentrating on just running the main service. Now the private operators have more experience and know what works, we're seeing future extensions to Lincoln etc.

 

[The Signalman]

An electric drag from Wolves could'nt happen these days due to a loading gauge restriction at an overbridge near Albrighton on the down line (I think).

The only way to get an Electric to Salop now is Via the Crewe line (as they had to to get 81002, 85101 & a RES 90 here for the 1993 Shrewsbury open day at Coton Hill Yard)

 

[tbtc]

An electric drag from Wolves could'nt happen these days due to a loading gauge restriction at an overbridge near Albrighton on the down line (I think).

The only way to get an Electric to Salop now is Via the Crewe line (as they had to to get 81002, 85101 & a RES 90 here for the 1993 Shrewsbury open day at Coton Hill Yard)

Didn't realise that, cheers.

May explain why it was withdrawn then, since Virgin obviously didn't have Voyagers back then.

 

[The Signalman]

The restriction at Albrighton is either on the up & down line - but not both.
I'll check the Sectional Appendix when I'am next on duty.

Either way it makes for dragging anything with pantograph to & from Wolves tricky.

As I said before A/C's when dragged to open days at Salop (or Hereford - there was an 86/6 there for one of ther open days in either 1991 or 1993) they usually come from Crewe.

 

[merlodlliw]

What I can say regarding WSMR taking into account that I see it most days at Salop is that on departing Salop on normal Monday to Fridays, my observation are that the first train southbound (1P01 - which will do Salop -MYB in just over 3 HRS) tends to be 65% full STD class & 75% full 1st class.

The 2nd train southbound (1P03) tends to be full & standing in STD (bearing in mind it DOES'NT call at Wolves) & is also about 40% full in 1st.
There are a lot of passengers on it that have boarded it north of Salop.

The 3rd southbound (1P13) tends to be 50% full STD & 20% 1st.

The last one (1P33 & starts at Salop) is about 65% full STD & 50% 1st.

Of the weekday northbounds the 1st one (1J80) is the quietest.
The 2nd northbound train (1J82 & terminates at Salop) is around 70% full STD & 20% in 1st.

However the busiest is the 3rd northbound (1J83- which does MYB-Salop in just over 3 HRS) with it being 90% full STD & 75% 1st. Plus a large number of passengers travelling beyond Salop.

At weekends & school holidays ALL the trains are well loaded especially in STD class. Some of which can be full & standing.

All this of course does'nt take in to account passengers alighting & boarding at Wellington, Telford & Cosford ETC.

I Hope this helps.

Excellent news Signalman, good to have this info,The Boss of W/S
Andy Hamilton will be giving his(what is now) annual talk to Shrewsbury
and Chester rail users assoc, at Wrexham on Monday.No doubt the room
will be packed again, not many CEOs set themselves up for a Q & A session
and grilling. Thanks for the info, keep it coming, do you know your counterpart at Croes Newydd David B?

 

[The Signalman]

Sorry, don't know any of the Bobbys at Croes Newydd - different patch you see, they are North Western Patch based under Chester Signalling manager & we are Great Western based under the Salop SM. The boundry is between Gobowen North & Wrexham Croes Newydd North Fork.