Wales to enter "circuit break" lockdown from Friday 23 October to Monday 9 November

[Richard Scott]

I agree. Why anyone would vote for these people again is beyond me.

Local MP and Welsh Assembly already had email from me saying there is no way I will support any current incumbents as long as these ridiculous policies continue.

 

[bramling]

And of course some of those localised restrictions are already very draconian - so looks like nothing but week after week of misery for people in those areas.

Surely people in those areas of Wales which have had the local lockdown followed by this are found to start agitating? Someone living in an area like Rhondda Cynon Taf for example will have spent coming up to 6 months of this year under various forms of lockdown, and with no real end point or exit strategy in sight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely people in those areas of Wales which have had the local lockdown followed by this are found to start agitating? Someone living in an area like Rhondda Cynon Taf for example will have spent coming up to 6 months of this year under various forms of lockdown, and with no real end point or exit strategy in sight.

Or maybe, just maybe, they think it's actually necessary, however unpleasant it might be?

I expect that's more the case in Wales because Drakeford actually has some credibility, and like Sturgeon explains himself well. You can forgive people for not going along with the pair of clowns England have to put up with.

 

[Richard Scott]

Or maybe, just maybe, they think it's actually necessary, however unpleasant it might be?

I expect that's more the case in Wales because Drakeford actually has some credibility, and like Sturgeon explains himself well. You can forgive people for not going along with the pair of clowns England have to put up with.

Afraid it's not, I work with people who are living in areas that have been in almost permanent lockdown and they are totally sick of it. Not many with a good word to say about Drakeford and his policies. He has almost no credibility.

 

[bramling]

Or maybe, just maybe, they think it's actually necessary, however unpleasant it might be?

I expect that's more the case in Wales because Drakeford actually has some credibility, and like Sturgeon explains himself well. You can forgive people for not going along with the pair of clowns England have to put up with.

I suspect popularity varies depending on one’s work situation. I can’t imagine this latest lockdown being popular with people who’s job or business is at risk. By contrast if one is a pensioner or work-from-homer then bring it on! This has all become *very* polarising, and to be frank it stinks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect popularity varies depending on one’s work situation. I can’t imagine this latest lockdown being popular with people who’s job or business is at risk. By contrast if one is a pensioner or work-from-homer then bring it on! This has all become *very* polarising, and to be frank it stinks.

To be fair, while I support measures I also support proper financial support for businesses[1] (so I'm very much behind Andy Burnham's current battle). We can pay for it later in increased taxation, and I strongly support that approach.

[1] Business that pays its taxes, anyway; Starbucks can get lost, we can always replace it with a domestic brand that coughs up what is due. Pay its staff a decent furlough and let it collapse.

 

[bramling]

To be fair, while I support measures I also support proper financial support for businesses[1] (so I'm very much behind Andy Burnham's current battle). We can pay for it later in increased taxation, and I strongly support that approach.

[1] Business that pays its taxes, anyway; Starbucks can get lost, we can always replace it with a domestic brand that coughs up what is due. Pay its staff a decent furlough and let it collapse.

I don’t think it’s right to saddle the current younger generation with years of increased taxes. They’re already shafted over things like house prices.

If this is going to be paid for down the line then pensioners are the first place to start. Watch the popularity of lockdown nosedive as soon as that gets out in the open. Of course, as usual pensioners will be insulated as their vote is too important to the political parties.

 

[Chester1]

I suspect popularity varies depending on one’s work situation. I can’t imagine this latest lockdown being popular with people who’s job or business is at risk. By contrast if one is a pensioner or work-from-homer then bring it on! This has all become *very* polarising, and to be frank it stinks.

I suspect the decision to ban travel to and from tier 2 and 3 areas will be very politically damaging regardless of what happens with local and Wales wide lockdowns. Its not just Manchester and Liverpool, its the whole of the North West of England (excluding Cumbria). I doubt any of it will be removed from tier 2 this year. Is the Welsh government serious about banning the large number of residents in North Wales with family and friends across the border from seeing them for an indefinite period of time. What happens if (or when) Bristol gets added to Tier 2? Or Shropshire? Or Herefordshire? Will they just say tough? Maybe reduce the ban to tier 3 areas? The Welsh elections in May could be very interesting. An act of parliament would be needed to delay and there is no chance of that happening if the Tories think they will gain seats.

I don’t think it’s right to saddle the current younger generation with years of increased taxes. They’re already shafted over things like house prices.

If this is going to be paid for down the line then pensioners are the first place to start. Watch the popularity of lockdown nosedive as soon as that gets out in the open. Of course, as usual pensioners will be insulated as their vote is too important to the political parties.

The UK government isn't really borrowing money to fund this. While its technically only borrowing money from private sellers e.g. pension funds, the Bank of England is printing money to buy government debt on the secondary bond market. Those quantitative easing purchases just happen to be almost the same as the governments projected borrowing... It reduces the value of the pound but most major central banks are doing similar so we are not seeing massive inflation. The problem becomes severe when the European Central Bank, the Federal Reserve etc stop quantitative easing, forcing the Bank of England to stop (or cause massive inflation). The "debt" accrued during the pandemic will only be accounting trickery but any deficit caused by long term reductions in tax revenue will be very real.

 

[Tramfan]

Does anyone actually trust the politicians not to extend it after two weeks?

If they told me tomorrow was Tuesday, I'd half expect to wake up to Monday again. I fear that even if cases/reported infections etc stabalize or drop after 2 weeks, then death rates would be used a reason to extend, given that we know deaths lag some weeks behind infections so are likely to still be on the up at the end of the 2 weeks.

 

[Chester1]

If they told me tomorrow was Tuesday, I'd half expect to wake up to Monday again. I fear that even if cases/reported infections etc stabalize or drop after 2 weeks, then death rates would be used a reason to extend, given that we know deaths lag some weeks behind infections so are likely to still be on the up at the end of the 2 weeks.

Isn't Melbourne 13 weeks into a 6 week lockdown? I think Israel is in week 6 of a 3 week lockdown.

 

[Richard Scott]

To be fair, while I support measures I also support proper financial support for businesses[1] (so I'm very much behind Andy Burnham's current battle). We can pay for it later in increased taxation, and I strongly support that approach.

[1] Business that pays its taxes, anyway; Starbucks can get lost, we can always replace it with a domestic brand that coughs up what is due. Pay its staff a decent furlough and let it collapse.

No, you can pay increased taxes, why should the rest of us pay for some ridiculous hairbrained scheme? Locking down the whole country is idiotic when some of it has next to no cases. At least keep part of it open and those businesses running so they don't need support. May have more sympathy with the aims if didn't hit everything with same blanket restrictions.

 

[MalaiseForever]

No, you can pay increased taxes, why should the rest of us pay for some ridiculous hairbrained scheme? Locking down the whole country is idiotic when some of it has next to no cases. At least keep part of it open and those businesses running so they don't need support. May have more sympathy with the aims if didn't hit everything with same blanket restrictions.

there is absolutely no need to raise taxes. The UK government can get very low or even negative yields on its debt. It would be stupid not to borrow to support the economy and fund new infrastructure, seeing as the government is effectively being paid to do so. And that’s before you even consider the multiplier effect and stimulus throughout the economy.

 

[Markdvdman]

I despise this lockdown fiasco. Drakeford is beyond a joke! Lockdowns devastate economies and there is no justification at all! This R Rate - Merthyr is about 200 per 100000. That is 0.2% and with a recovery rate of 99.7% do the maths. WHAT science are these idiots following as they obviously do not understand mathematics! I had 3 months not seeing my girdlfriend, not seen her for 3 weeks, and now another 3 weeks plus whatever is beyond. They are playing with peoples lives, and I pity those in work that is not certain with closed stores and businesses AGAIN!!!!! What is the plan? Keep locking down until the money runs out then go for herd immunity? Vaccines are never certain to work anyway! In history, the only big virus a vaccine eradicated was small pox - so something is just not right with the science they are following!

 

[bramling]

No, you can pay increased taxes, why should the rest of us pay for some ridiculous hairbrained scheme? Locking down the whole country is idiotic when some of it has next to no cases. At least keep part of it open and those businesses running so they don't need support. May have more sympathy with the aims if didn't hit everything with same blanket restrictions.

It’s impossible to support every business anyway. There’s no way the government can cover months on end of staff wages and lost revenue.

I kind of want there to be hotels still in business at the end of all this!

I despise this lockdown fiasco. Drakeford is beyond a joke! Lockdowns devastate economies and there is no justification at all! This R Rate - Merthyr is about 200 per 100000. That is 0.2% and with a recovery rate of 99.7% do the maths. WHAT science are these idiots following as they obviously do not understand mathematics! I had 3 months not seeing my girdlfriend, not seen her for 3 weeks, and now another 3 weeks plus whatever is beyond. They are playing with peoples lives, and I pity those in work that is not certain with closed stores and businesses AGAIN!!!!! What is the plan? Keep locking down until the money runs out then go for herd immunity? Vaccines are never certain to work anyway! In history, the only big virus a vaccine eradicated was small pox - so something is just not right with the science they are following!

I really sympathise for business owners at the moment. As if the spring / summer wasn’t bad enough, now they’re being forced to close again, at a time when they might have expected reasonable business (half term), and anyone making firm plans for Christmas is probably going to get messed around.

There’s only so much businesses can take of all this.

 

[Carlisle]

Isn't Melbourne 13 weeks into a 6 week lockdown? I think Israel is in week 6 of a 3 week lockdown.

Absolutely, & given Ireland’s shortly entering a 2nd 6 week lockdown despite initially acting early in March , completely trashes the locktivists oft repeated theory that early interventions saves further pain later on

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Were Wales, generally, not the most slow and cautious of the four nations to emerge from the first national lockdown?

And now the first to go back into one...

 

[Meole]

Wales wanted travel restrictions from English Level 3, Boris refused, this lockdown is their answer.

 

[bramling]

Were Wales, generally, not the most slow and cautious of the four nations to emerge from the first national lockdown?

And now the first to go back into one...

Yep. Their cautious retreat from the first lockdown doesn’t seem to have put them in any better position than England.

Trouble is it’s very easy for this to be blamed on England, so we’re unlikely to see any politicians being held to account on it. The only advantage of the Welsh strategy was they didn’t get so much of the honeypotting, which would have made life a bit easier for people living in such areas. Though having said that we did read on here about Barry Island being packed out ISTR, so they weren’t completely immune. It may also have helped some rural areas keep Covid out, but of course that may well simply mean they’re more vulnerable now.

 

[3rd rail land]

No, you can pay increased taxes, why should the rest of us pay for some ridiculous hairbrained scheme? Locking down the whole country is idiotic when some of it has next to no cases. At least keep part of it open and those businesses running so they don't need support. May have more sympathy with the aims if didn't hit everything with same blanket restrictions.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Plus I suspect that the extra revenue generated from increasing taxes wouldn't cover the cost of the many schemes the various Governments and Assemblies have come up with.

 

[Chester1]

Wales wanted travel restrictions from English Level 3, Boris refused, this lockdown is their answer.

They wanted it for tier 2 areas as well. That is approximately half of the population of England.

 

[Yew]

there is absolutely no need to raise taxes. The UK government can get very low or even negative yields on its debt. It would be stupid not to borrow to support the economy and fund new infrastructure, seeing as the government is effectively being paid to do so. And that’s before you even consider the multiplier effect and stimulus throughout the economy.

For investment, I completely agree, however when it's to fund normal expendiature, I become a lot less comfortable with it, as that's how Zimbabwe happens.

 

[Bikeman78]

Were Wales, generally, not the most slow and cautious of the four nations to emerge from the first national lockdown?

And now the first to go back into one...

Yes only two months of freedom in Cardiff. Caerphilly was about half that.

 

[Busaholic]

Isn't Melbourne 13 weeks into a 6 week lockdown? I think Israel is in week 6 of a 3 week lockdown.

Melbourne's has just ended. Latest figure for new daily cases = 2, and no deaths, so it's almost a NZ situation there now.Those certainly aren't figures that anti-lockdown campaigners would want to draw attention to, but what the cost to their economy has been I dread to think. Was it worth it? Not being a Victorian I couldn't possibly comment, and maybe it'll be another three months before the answer becomes clearer. If the virus has returned with a vengeance by then, I'd assume the answer would be a resounding 'no', but if it's stayed away, who knows? More open-mindedness needed, not entrenched positions, we're not citizens of the benighted USA for heaven's sake.

 

[DB]

Melbourne's has just ended. Latest figure for new daily cases = 2, and no deaths, so it's almost a NZ situation there now.Those certainly aren't figures that anti-lockdown campaigners would want to draw attention to, but what the cost to their economy has been I dread to think. Was it worth it? Not being a Victorian I couldn't possibly comment, and maybe it'll be another three months before the answer becomes clearer. If the virus has returned with a vengeance by then, I'd assume the answer would be a resounding 'no', but if it's stayed away, who knows? More open-mindedness needed, not entrenched positions, we're not citizens of the benighted USA for heaven's sake.

Unless they have stringent Quarantine rules well into the future it's hard to see how that it will stay away for long. And even then, it may not.

 

[duncanp]

Mark Drakeford has said that the "fire break" lockdown will definitely end on November 9th, but that "..we won't know if it has worked until after it has ended..."

I hope if it is shown not to have worked he has the decency to resign, but I very much doubt it as he is going to step down at the next election anyway.

No doubt he has got or will have a few consultancies and public sector sinecures lined up, so he will be comfortably off whilst the people of Wales have to deal with the s**t he has left behind for years to come.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Melbourne's has just ended. Latest figure for new daily cases = 2, and no deaths, so it's almost a NZ situation there now.Those certainly aren't figures that anti-lockdown campaigners would want to draw attention to, but what the cost to their economy has been I dread to think. Was it worth it? Not being a Victorian I couldn't possibly comment, and maybe it'll be another three months before the answer becomes clearer. If the virus has returned with a vengeance by then, I'd assume the answer would be a resounding 'no', but if it's stayed away, who knows? More open-mindedness needed, not entrenched positions, we're not citizens of the benighted USA for heaven's sake.

Strictly it's still going. We are only at step 2 of 4 of reopening.
We are only allowed to leave home for 4 reasons( school or permitted work (if these cannot be done from home), care or caregiving, to purchase essentials, exercise/recreation) and we are still restricted on how far we can go. It's gone from 5km to 25km. Sure more stuff opened yesterday but it's not a free for all.
If things stay low we can get to the next step

How we live - Information for all Victorians | Coronavirus Victoria

Victoria moves to COVIDSafe Summer from 11:59pm 6 December 2020.

www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au

We are still miles off being out of restrictions.

 

[DB]

Mark Drakeford has said that the "fire break" lockdown will definitely end on November 9th, but that "..we won't know if it has worked until after it has ended..."

I hope if it is shown not to have worked he has the decency to resign,

But that would require a clear measure on 'work' means - i.e. what is it actually supposed to achieve?

 

[birchesgreen]

It is kept sufficient vague to make it easier to claim victory?

 

[duncanp]

i.e. what is it actually supposed to achieve?

To make it look as if the sun shines out of Mark Drakeford's backside, and Boris Johnson talks out of his backside. (the latter is probably true )

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wales wanted travel restrictions from English Level 3, Boris refused, this lockdown is their answer.

Not true; he made a law to answer that already.

For investment, I completely agree, however when it's to fund normal expendiature, I become a lot less comfortable with it, as that's how Zimbabwe happens.

This isn't normal expenditure, it's probably the most exceptional expenditure since World War 2.