Wales transport plan

[merlodlliw]

This may interest a few of you, from an e mail to members,in a nutshell
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Published today and can be viewed at:

http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/ntp/nationaltransportplan/?lang=en

A quick scan through it finds the usual waffle and few hard facts as regards actual prospects and delivery.

Wrexham is acknowledged as being in the Deeside/Chester /Wrexham triangle and transport options in this area will be looked at.

Shrewsbury-Chester line will see some redualling and increased line speed by 2012 - only two years to wait!

Prospects for Improved rolling stock provision acknowledged

WAG Express to be developed and run via Wrexham.

Options to look at reopening closed lines but none specified.

Hourly daytime service on the Cambrian line to Aberystwyth.

Getting freight onto rail - one is inclined to ask What freight?

Lots on options for improving the Valley lines - now there's a surprise!

Prospects for electrification mentioned but nothing specifically about Wrexham - Bidston.

For the rail aspects go to chapter 2.5. Also chapter 3 paras 56 & 57 re north south links.

Mostly it's more roads....................

I note a failure to acknowledge Liverpool airport as an entry/ exit point for travellers in N Wales as evidenced by numbers travelling from Wrexham to John Lennon airport for flights to and from Europe. Lack of knowledge and lateral thinking by the Cardiff based civil servants.


George

 

[Ty'n'wtre nr 2]

There's always a lot of talk about an hourly service on the Cambrian main line but I'll believe it when it happens. Building the dynamic loop at Welshpool seems to be taking an eternity and if the hourly service is dependant on getting ERTMS working well............

One bit of freight that could go by train are logs. They currently go by lorry (lots of lorries) along the A470. I think most go to Chirk. Apart from the odd engineers train or track machines there are no overnight trains on the Cambrian main line so there would appear to be no problem fitting in a freight service or two.

 

[merlodlliw]

There's always a lot of talk about an hourly service on the Cambrian main line but I'll believe it when it happens. Building the dynamic loop at Welshpool seems to be taking an eternity and if the hourly service is dependant on getting ERTMS working well............

One bit of freight that could go by train are logs. They currently go by lorry (lots of lorries) along the A470. I think most go to Chirk. Apart from the odd engineers train or track machines there are no overnight trains on the Cambrian main line so there would appear to be no problem fitting in a freight service or two.

Are they going to build a dynamic loop at Welshpool? thought they were for passing @ speed, the loop at Rossett seems to be ruled out for cost.

The logs do go to Chirk, but which forest do they come from? is it near a railway loading area, there used to be a fuel train to Aber a few years ago

 

[Ty'n'wtre nr 2]

It will be for passing at spped as it's going to about 2.5 miles long. I went past about three weeks ago and the majority of the plain track is in place but it needs connecting at each end. They had started laying it when I used to travel daily by train and I haven't done that for nearly a year.

Not sure where the logs come from - various forests I imagine. Would have thought they could be loaded at Machynlleth or Aberystwyth.

I haven't seen a fuel train going to Aberystwyth or seen anthing in Aber yard. It's just the usual 158's, and an occasional 37 or 66 on engineers trains or the 97's as light engines or sometimes with a few NR Mk3's. 31 and the measurement train comes down occasionally.

 

[merlodlliw]

It will be for passing at spped as it's going to about 2.5 miles long. I went past about three weeks ago and the majority of the plain track is in place but it needs connecting at each end. They had started laying it when I used to travel daily by train and I haven't done that for nearly a year.

Not sure where the logs come from - various forests I imagine. Would have thought they could be loaded at Machynlleth or Aberystwyth.

I haven't seen a fuel train going to Aberystwyth or seen anthing in Aber yard. It's just the usual 158's, and an occasional 37 or 66 on engineers trains or the 97's as light engines or sometimes with a few NR Mk3's. 31 and the measurement train comes down occasionally.

The fuel train stopped a few years ago, it goes by road,big protest about safety, but it fell on death ears. Track lifted at Aber by the Fuel dump.

As for the dynamic loop although I have seen work extending the line to almost opposite Charleys vast store,
well Charleys in the distance across the road so its a good 2 miles & more in length towards Newtown , agree this was started well over a year ago. why pass at speed, as Welshpool as two platforms? must be a good reason. As for the hourly service, seems a long way off, even though two 158s could be used now ,if they ever existed for Aber/London, as you say believe it when it happens.

M

 

[Proud Salopian]

Heart of Wales Line gets a mention, but only a promise to re-evaluate the case for additional services.

 

[j0hn0]

Wales is a weird one, not in terms of country but in terms of transport. There is so much focussed down south where the majority of the population live, and then along the north coast to anglesey obviously.

What baffles me is the almost complete railway wilderness in between them. The Heart of Wales and Cambrian lines both being single track with 2 hourly trains I think. (Please correct if wrong)
Also the rolling stock is pretty appalling (I will never prefer a 158 with broken toilets to a loco hauled rake or even a 185) and the journey times are just catastrophically bad.

I think electrification will eventually come to north and south wales but again, despite ERTMS tests and potential upgrades that will increase the frequency on the cambrian, its still single track, with aging diesel stock.

What I love about mid wales is its tranquility and its beauty. I can respect that the few residents would want to keep it that way, but I do think that they should get a better service than they currently get.

 

[merlodlliw]

H O W line, worse than 2 hourly, 1 every 4 to 5 hours

 

[Proud Salopian]

A 2 hourly service on the HOWL would be a dream!!

Does anyone have an update on the point replacement work on the HOWL, at passing points like Knighton? Supposed to be all done this year?

 

[Ty'n'wtre nr 2]

What baffles me is the almost complete railway wilderness in between them.

It's down to history, geography and geology. There are no significant mineral resources apart from the few lead mines such as Van and Dolifor, and a bit of maritime activity along the coast. The rest is predominantly agricultural although now forestry and ever increasing numbers of wind farms. The only significant industry in mid Wales was in the Newtown area. Apart from Aberystwyth most of the other towns are relatively small. The Cambrian mountains limit roads and railways too. The line down to Llanidloes succumbed to losing passenger services in 1962 and was closed to all traffic in 1967.

Historically the Cambrian never made much money because of the limited population, and hence it was never doubled. 'Railway through Talerddig' by G Briwnant-Jones is a good history of the Cambrian lines and also touches on some of the other proposed routes.

Whilst a better train service would be great, so would re-opening Carno station and perhaps building a new one in Llanbrynmair.

 

[TDK]

A 2 hourly service on the HOWL would be a dream!!

Does anyone have an update on the point replacement work on the HOWL, at passing points like Knighton? Supposed to be all done this year?

Is there any demand for a 2 hourly service? The whole of the HOW line is funded by the WAG, it's a non profit railway currently
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This may interest a few of you, from an e mail to members,in a nutshell
...........................................................................................

Shrewsbury-Chester line will see some redualling and increased line speed by 2012 - only two years to wait!

Prospects for Improved rolling stock provision acknowledged

WAG Express to be developed and run via Wrexham.

57. Enhancing capacity of the section of rail between Shrewsbury and Chester,
via Wrexham (by 2012).

56. Y Gerallt Gymro Holyhead to Cardiff fast train service, and programme of
continued improvements.

56. Continue to support our fl agship Y Gerallt Gymro Holyhead to Cardiff fast
train service, and a programme of continued improvements in rail services
between north and south Wales.
57. Enhance the capacity of the section of rail between Shrewsbury and
Chester via Wrexham, including dualling parts of the line between
Chester and Wrexham as appropriate, to permit faster services between
north and south Wales, and potentially more frequencies, by 2012. This
will enable all north-south services to be routed through Wrexham.

They do not actaually mention Wrexham with Gerald, and the doubling of the line is between Chester and Wrexham in turn unless the capacity is increased between Wrexham and Shrewsbury this will be a complete waste of tax payers money. I still think they could increase capacity and keep the single line as it is with signal enhancments south of Wrexham

 

[Dai.]

Ah good!

The Gaer Junction's mentioned, hopefully they should sort that out to get services to Cardiff and Newport, from Ebbw Vale!

 

[The Planner]

why pass at speed, as Welshpool as two platforms? must be a good reason. As for the hourly service, seems a long way off.
M

December 2010.....and if you dont pass between Fron and Welshpool, expect a nice crash...

 

[robert2000]

so what will i expect to see in the december 2010 timetable for the cambrian line.
the welshpool - fron loop is not far off completion i think, if any1 from tht area or has been on tht line recently, please comment.
will there still be a 4 hour gap in the evening to pwhelli from machynlleth?

 

[Domeyhead]

Anyone know what is happening with the proposed extraction by rail of slate waste at Blaenau Ffestiniog (sp)? Last I heard all local authorities are in favour even the environmental groups as it provides jobs and recycles a waste product for use as roadstone rather than quarrying new rock. The quantity involved would lead to significant rail traffic and new jobs in a depressed area and a trial was held using a class 66 and loaded tipplers. Apparently the 66 stalled at Blaenau on the incline! There was some kind of peculiar Nimby opposition group led by a hotelier claiming that the rail traffic would devastate the whole of Snowdonia or some such nonsense, but other than that it should have been a done deal by now.

 

[The Planner]

so what will i expect to see in the december 2010 timetable for the cambrian line.
the welshpool - fron loop is not far off completion i think, if any1 from tht area or has been on tht line recently, please comment.
will there still be a 4 hour gap in the evening to pwhelli from machynlleth?

Cambrian hourly is nothing to do with the coast, dont expect much to happen there. As for Dec 2010, wait and see, its not finished yet.

 

[merlodlliw]

December 2010.....and if you dont pass between Fron and Welshpool, expect a nice crash...

The line work I was thinking of was at Welshpool Station, so where is this dynamic loop exactly planner.

As for the hourly service, I would be surprised if its Dec this year, and will the hourly service be in fact semi hourly in the evening.
M

so what will i expect to see in the december 2010 timetable for the cambrian line.
the welshpool - fron loop is not far off completion i think, if any1 from tht area or has been on tht line recently, please comment.
will there still be a 4 hour gap in the evening to pwhelli from machynlleth?

As this line is subsidised to the hilt,I dont see Gwynedd CC paying for another
evening service.
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They do not actaually mention Wrexham with Gerald, and the doubling of the line is between Chester and Wrexham in turn unless the capacity is increased between Wrexham and Shrewsbury this will be a complete waste of tax payers money. I still think they could increase capacity and keep the single line as it is with signal enhancments south of Wrexham[/QUOTE]


The Minister as written to the Wrexham A.M. confirming ALL North/South services, including Gerald will go via Wrexham.
section 57 says all services, but I agree not set in stone.

 

[TDK]

They do not actaually mention Wrexham with Gerald, and the doubling of the line is between Chester and Wrexham in turn unless the capacity is increased between Wrexham and Shrewsbury this will be a complete waste of tax payers money. I still think they could increase capacity and keep the single line as it is with signal enhancments south of Wrexham

The Minister as written to the Wrexham A.M. confirming ALL North/South services, including Gerald will go via Wrexham.
section 57 says all services, but I agree not set in stone.[/QUOTE]

ATW do not want to run it via Wrexham as they will have to run the loco round, this in turn will add 30 minutes to journey time, watch this space as the WAG will have to dig deep to subsidise a second loco so they can top and tail. This is going to get interesting to say the least as there are not any paths apart from one following the WSMR service. I suppose the calling pattern will be from Chester :- Wrexham, Gobowen, Shrewsbury then the current stopping pattern. I think it was ATW that decided on the route via Crewe as there was actually a path for them at the time of the application via wrexham, of course ATW denied any such path as they didn't have the provision to run it top and tail and it would add the in excess of 30 mins to the journey time.

 

[merlodlliw]

ATW do not want to run it via Wrexham as they will have to run the loco round, this in turn will add 30 minutes to journey time, watch this space as the WAG will have to dig deep to subsidise a second loco so they can top and tail. This is going to get interesting to say the least as there are not any paths apart from one following the WSMR service. I suppose the calling pattern will be from Chester :- Wrexham, Gobowen, Shrewsbury then the current stopping pattern. I think it was ATW that decided on the route via Crewe as there was actually a path for them at the time of the application via wrexham, of course ATW denied any such path as they didn't have the provision to run it top and tail and it would add the in excess of 30 mins to the journey time.[/QUOTE]

Yes we all know there was a path which was ignored,the route via Crewe
was asking for ridicule, as was the missing out Hereford (A Welsh Managed
Station).
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The latest episode "WAGAIR" going bust at a cost of £800K subsidy, is one
disaster after another, read this. from North Wales rail forums.

'WAG-Air' grounded

Directors of Inverness-based Highland Airways called in administrators PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP (PwC) on 24 March. Their message is: 'Unfortunately, the Joint Administrators have been unable to continue trading the companies and therefore all flights operated by Highland Airways Limited have been cancelled and the aircraft grounded.' Rumours in the Scottish press suggest that this final collapse was precipitated by the actions of HM Revenue and Customs.

The airline ran flights linking some of the Inner and Outer Hebrides to the mainland via Oban and Inverness as well as the Cardiff to Anglesey route, which was heavily subsidised by the Welsh Assembly Government. How much taxpayer's money has gone down this drain remains to be seen.

The company employs around 100 people but said it was too early to say how many redundancies there would be. Loganair have stepped in to take over one of the Scottish routes, but so far nobody seems to be queuing up to run the Welsh route.

 

[175001]

Any news on the Conwy Valley line in it?

 

[merlodlliw]

Any news on the Conwy Valley line in it?

No, seen nothing

 

[The Planner]

The line work I was thinking of was at Welshpool Station, so where is this dynamic loop exactly planner.

The loop at Welshpool station is extended down to Fron level crossing about 3 miles away. There is another passing loop at Dovey Junction that allows passing moves and two in the station like Penryn in Cornwall.

 

[merlodlliw]

The loop at Welshpool station is extended down to Fron level crossing about 3 miles away. There is another passing loop at Dovey Junction that allows passing moves and two in the station like Penryn in Cornwall.

Thank you planner, So I was in the correct place opposite Charlies http://www.yell.com/b/Charlies+Stores+Ltd-Agricultural+Supplies-Welshpool-SY218RP-4018576/index.html
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A bit of South Wales banter here
See this from Transport info UK:

Five-year transport plans on track to double train service

Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 23:59


A STRETCH of single rail track west of Swansea will be doubled under new transport plans for Wales.

The five-year National Transport Plan described the five-mile section of track between Gowerton and Loughor as a "major pinch-point" restricting potential growth of rail services west of the city. Network Rail has started detailed design work on the planned upgrade.

The main thrust of the Assembly plan was to improve integration between various forms of transport to make it easier for people to jump on a bus when arriving at a train station, for example.

Other pledges included express bus services between Cardiff and Cardiff Airport, continuing the dualling of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road, and ensuring Wales was not left behind by the UK's high speed rail network. Money will also be spent improving train comfort and security by 2014.

The report cited the ongoing £10million revamp of Swansea's Quadrant bus station, saying it could spark wider regeneration in the city.

John Davies, former British Rail provincial services manager for south west Wales, said the doubling of the Gowerton to Loughor track would allow at least eight trains per hour, compared to the existing four. The route links Swansea with Llanelli, Carmarthen, Milford Haven and Fishguard.
Mr Davies, of Sketty, also said the upgrade would allow Gowerton residents to hop on the Heart of Wales service, which he said was often not the case nowadays because the trains blocked the busy line.

Mr Davies admitted he was involved in the decision to halve the track to single in 1984, but said passenger numbers were falling and that trains could only proceed at 40mph.

"It was the right decision at the time," he said. (well, he would say that!)

Assembly chiefs added variable speed restrictions on the busiest roads would be introduced from this year onwards. They said tolls would only be considered on new roads, but that they were duty-bound to consider toll proposals brought by local authorities.

The five-year plan will be funded from the Assembly's transport budget, of around £600million per annum, with some schemes attracting European cash.

Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones said Wales needed to get more out of its "extensive" network of roads and railways.

"This is a major challenge, but one I am determined to grasp," he said.





It is to be hoped a similar announcement might soon be made for the solution to the Saltney-Wrexham single line stretch. Both single line sections were grouped as restrictions in need of attention in the Wales RUS.

 

[j0hn0]

It's down to history, geography and geology. There are no significant mineral resources apart from the few lead mines such as Van and Dolifor, and a bit of maritime activity along the coast. The rest is predominantly agricultural although now forestry and ever increasing numbers of wind farms. The only significant industry in mid Wales was in the Newtown area. Apart from Aberystwyth most of the other towns are relatively small. The Cambrian mountains limit roads and railways too. The line down to Llanidloes succumbed to losing passenger services in 1962 and was closed to all traffic in 1967.

Historically the Cambrian never made much money because of the limited population, and hence it was never doubled. 'Railway through Talerddig' by G Briwnant-Jones is a good history of the Cambrian lines and also touches on some of the other proposed routes.

Whilst a better train service would be great, so would re-opening Carno station and perhaps building a new one in Llanbrynmair.

cheers fella, will check that out.

I guess the business case for tourism wouldn't be that strong either. In Germany they build high speed lines through terrain similar to Wales, but I guess you don't see many towns the size of Koeln or Frankfurt on the mid Wales coast

 

[Ty'n'wtre nr 2]

You don't see any cities the size of Koeln or Frankfurt in Wales. The populations of Cardiff (235,205 (2001)) and Swansea (229,100) are small compared to those two cities. As for mid Wales the population in Aberystwyth is around 12,000 with around another 8,000 students in University term time, and in Newtown is just under 13,000.

Most tourists come by car which is why the A470 and the few other roads are so busy. The current timetables don't really encourage tourism by train and as other people have already mentioned getting connections along the coast in the evening (also some Sundays) can mean a long wait. It's a shame because it is a scenic train ride. My favourite are the summer steam hauled specials from Machynlleth up to Pwllheli.