Ways to improve the First Glasgow Network

[PaulMc7]

Ex west lothian ones ?

Sometimes the wooden flooring can look dirty and absorb stuff , the national express coach i was , was like that.

54 plates and eclipses can be a riot .

Think it's one of them. Was multiple shades because it had the light blue at the front but still dark blue at the back. Yeah definitely

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

FSE 23 branded E400MMCs, few 2 tone blue ones on the 60 today aswell, recent transfers from Livingston

 

[PaulMc7]

FSE 23 branded E400MMCs, few 2 tone blue ones on the 60 today aswell, recent transfers from Livingston

Yeah they're a welcome change on the 60. Needed newer buses for quite some time.

 

[route101]

Yeah they're a welcome change on the 60. Needed newer buses for quite some time.

Funnily enough i took the 23 from Livi to Edinburgh and it was a e400mmc

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

We're due a few more E400MMCs from Livingston, due 9 in total leaving Livingston with 10 pending there isn't another 3 way swap

 

[PaulMc7]

Another thing I thought of today as a possible improvement was if First could market particular services that cover a lot of areas on their route. The 8 and 90 spring to mind as they're massive routes that are like tours almost by the time the bus goes one end to the other. They won't get new buses as they're not affected by the LEZ so could this be another way of attracting customers to them?

 

[Stan Drews]

Another thing I thought of today as a possible improvement was if First could market particular services that cover a lot of areas on their route. The 8 and 90 spring to mind as they're massive routes that are like tours almost by the time the bus goes one end to the other. They won't get new buses as they're not affected by the LEZ so could this be another way of attracting customers to them?

Using your business and accountancy background, could you give an idea of what marketing activity you would propose, and the sort of financial gain you’d anticipate relative to the required spending?

 

[PaulMc7]

Using your business and accountancy background, could you give an idea of what marketing activity you would propose, and the sort of financial gain you’d anticipate relative to the required spending?

The 8 is a tougher one because it's busier in patches and quieter in other areas but certainly with the 90 branding relating to the fact it covers 3 hospitals and Braehead which is one of the better shopping centres around could definitely be a path to follow. Always feel like the fact they both cover the Forge could be a thing to capitalise on too. Would also change the 8 to a 91 for better numbering too as it fits with the 90 and also fits in better in Springburn as it would be an 87/88/89/90/91 series I'd definitely be making sure people know about the changes 2/3 months in advance because First aren't always great at making timetables available quick enough. It's definitely something that could be busy and worth a try

 

[Stan Drews]

The 8 is a tougher one because it's busier in patches and quieter in other areas but certainly with the 90 branding relating to the fact it covers 3 hospitals and Braehead which is one of the better shopping centres around could definitely be a path to follow. Always feel like the fact they both cover the Forge could be a thing to capitalise on too. Would also change the 8 to a 91 for better numbering too as it fits with the 90 and also fits in better in Springburn as it would be an 87/88/89/90/91 series I'd definitely be making sure people know about the changes 2/3 months in advance because First aren't always great at making timetables available quick enough. It's definitely something that could be busy and worth a try

Ok, let’s just stick to the 90.
What would be your proposed budget for the branding, and anything else to make sure people knew about it? £10k, £20k, £50k??

 

[PaulMc7]

Ok, let’s just stick to the 90.
What would be your proposed budget for the branding, and anything else to make sure people knew about it? £10k, £20k, £50k??

Would maybe go about 5/10k. Could do a lot of it online through their own Twitter and Facebook and website then the rest would be some leaflets and copies of the new timetable on buses for people to check out

 

[Stan Drews]

Would maybe go about 5/10k. Could do a lot of it online through their own Twitter and Facebook and website then the rest would be some leaflets and copies of the new timetable on buses for people to check out

I think you might be seriously underestimating the cost of vehicle branding, even assuming your plan would be for an in-house First design, so no separate design costs as such. I haven’t looked to see what the PVR of the 90 is, but you wouldn’t get many buses branded for £10k.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think you might be seriously underestimating the cost of vehicle branding, even assuming your plan would be for an in-house First design, so no separate design costs as such. I haven’t looked to see what the PVR of the 90 is, but you wouldn’t get many buses branded for £10k.

I was talking 5/10k for everything else. The bus branding budget itself would be 50/60k minimum. That's my mistake I should have explained exactly what was what

 

[PaulMc7]

This is from a North American site BusBank regarding it. Interesting stuff:

Bus Wraps: Commonly Asked Questions

We have helped a lot of different customers with Bus Wraps over the years. You can see some of examples of bus wraps on our corporate marketing and bus wraps page. We are asked many questions on a regular basis about bus wraps and wanted to provide a good reference for people looking for a bit more information about wrap advertising.What is a Bus Wrap?


Wrap advertising is the marketing practice of completely or partially wrapping a bus in an advertisement. Thus turning the charter bus into a mobile billboard.

Why Use a Bus Wrap?

On average the US population spends two hours per day on the road. Vehicle advertising generates up to 70,000 impressions on day/vehicle. Mobile advertising costs only a fraction of TV, Radio, Print or conventional billboards.

How much does a Bus Wrap Cost?

Bus wraps vary greatly in cost depending on design and coverage. The pricing can range anywhere from $8,000 – $12,500 this price would include all installation and removal costs as well.

Who Does The Artwork?

Certain templates are needed for each bus depending on the bus type and model. This template is then used by a graphic designer to create a custom design that will go on the bus. Typically, a company will allow you to design this yourself and then they will provide final proofs, mockups to be reviewed by designer.

Where does a buswrap get done?

The Bus Wrap is printed on special film to be applied to the bus. The bus wrap is then installed by experts to ensure that it does not damage the paint job or design already on the bus.

What Type of Bus Can be Wrapped?

All types of buses can be wrapped. The key is making sure that you have the right model and measurements for the design.

How long does this process take?

A Typical bus wrap from initial idea to wrapping the bus takes about 1 month. This is the average time to go through the entire process.

 

[Stan Drews]

I was talking 5/10k for everything else. The bus branding budget itself would be 50/60k minimum. That's my mistake I should have explained exactly what was what

Ah, that makes more sense. However, a budget of £60/65k is going to have to generate an awful lot of additional journeys just to cover that marketing spend. I’d like to be a fly on the wall at that meeting with your MD!

 

[PaulMc7]

Ah, that makes more sense. However, a budget of £60/65k is going to have to generate an awful lot of additional journeys just to cover that marketing spend. I’d like to be a fly on the wall at that meeting with your MD!

Yeah I'd get customer feedback first before I went through with any ideas. No point executing ideas if there's no demand for them. Always been told to do way more market research first regardless of which business type it is. I'm by no means an expert but I know the basics. First could probably have got a bit more out of loss making services had they just consulted more with customers. Stagecoach are particularly good at it

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Whilst I get the whole colourful coded branding of routes to help perhaps those who are hard of sight or simply to make the route stand out for all, especially when the bus is travelling together down renfrew street with a whole load of other services.

However, I feel that using specific branding especially when it's on more than just a hand full of routes it starts to subdue the companies standard livery as a whole(even though the standard lilac livery just melds in to the background), personally it appears to break up the companies services, whether it's a bad thing or not is I suppose in the eye of the beholder.

Like a few others seem to support on here I would like to see a return of a very nice black and strathclyde-red livery, a bold and it certainly would be a distintive option if yous ask me, even then though I feel that even with a new brash change of appearance for First Glasgow it would be over shadowed by there murky past.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

This is from a North American site BusBank regarding it. Interesting stuff:

Bus Wraps: Commonly Asked Questions

We have helped a lot of different customers with Bus Wraps over the years. You can see some of examples of bus wraps on our corporate marketing and bus wraps page. We are asked many questions on a regular basis about bus wraps and wanted to provide a good reference for people looking for a bit more information about wrap advertising.What is a Bus Wrap?


Wrap advertising is the marketing practice of completely or partially wrapping a bus in an advertisement. Thus turning the charter bus into a mobile billboard.

Why Use a Bus Wrap?

On average the US population spends two hours per day on the road. Vehicle advertising generates up to 70,000 impressions on day/vehicle. Mobile advertising costs only a fraction of TV, Radio, Print or conventional billboards.

How much does a Bus Wrap Cost?

Bus wraps vary greatly in cost depending on design and coverage. The pricing can range anywhere from $8,000 – $12,500 this price would include all installation and removal costs as well.

Who Does The Artwork?

Certain templates are needed for each bus depending on the bus type and model. This template is then used by a graphic designer to create a custom design that will go on the bus. Typically, a company will allow you to design this yourself and then they will provide final proofs, mockups to be reviewed by designer.

Where does a buswrap get done?

The Bus Wrap is printed on special film to be applied to the bus. The bus wrap is then installed by experts to ensure that it does not damage the paint job or design already on the bus.

What Type of Bus Can be Wrapped?

All types of buses can be wrapped. The key is making sure that you have the right model and measurements for the design.

How long does this process take?

A Typical bus wrap from initial idea to wrapping the bus takes about 1 month. This is the average time to go through the entire process.

Personally I think that an extensive PR program to advertise positive changes, being pro-active and actually visiting companies around glasgow big or small who may have employee who use local services, using the popular facebook and Twitter feeds more constructively to answer questions from customer and to put word out there of said changes, and of course making absolutely sure customer are informed through local or regional newspapers well in advanced as well, all of which first seems to lack is simply attention to detail and overall effort, if you combine those efforts above it would rather make people of glasgow see that it wasn't all about slapping colour on a new bus and that's the job done.

 

[PaulMc7]

Whilst I get the whole colourful coded branding of routes to help perhaps those who are hard of sight or simply to make the route stand out for all, especially when the bus is travelling together down renfrew street with a whole load of other services.

However, I feel that using specific branding especially when it's on more than just a hand full of routes it starts to subdue the companies standard livery as a whole(even though the standard lilac livery just melds in to the background), personally it appears to break up the companies services, whether it's a bad thing or not is I suppose in the eye of the beholder.

Like a few others seem to support on here I would like to see a return of a very nice black and strathclyde-red livery, a bold and it certainly would be a distintive option if yous ask me, even then though I feel that even with a new brash change of appearance for First Glasgow it would be over shadowed by there murky past.

Yeah I wouldn't brand too many services especially through the same areas. Yeah I like a lot of the old liverys. Seen a few concept ideas on here for new ones and a lot of them tied back into the Strathclyde Red or similar

 

[PaulMc7]

Personally I think that an extensive PR program to advertise positive changes, being pro-active and actually visiting companies around glasgow big or small who may have employee who use local services, using the popular facebook and Twitter feeds more constructively to answer questions from customer and to put word out there of said changes, and of course making absolutely sure customer are informed through local or regional newspapers well in advanced as well, all of which first seems to lack is simply attention to detail and overall effort, if you combine those efforts above it would rather make people of glasgow see that it wasn't all about slapping colour on a new bus and that's the job done.

Yeah First as far as social media go are a bit of a nightmare. Social media and building customer relationships are so crucial in 2019 and even a lot of older people are getting pretty tech savvy these days so as times goes on its only going to get more important. First's Twitter is especially bad and so inaccurate but it doesn't help when it's ran by staff that have probably never been to Glasgow once

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Yeah First as far as social media go are a bit of a nightmare. Social media and building customer relationships are so crucial in 2019 and even a lot of older people are getting pretty tech savvy these days so as times goes on its only going to get more important. First's Twitter is especially bad and so inaccurate but it doesn't help when it's ran by staff that have probably never been to Glasgow once

Amongst us it is known that glasgow do not have it's own social media teams nor it seems a dedicated PR boss for each subsidary area.

Forgive me if it's an extreme anglophobic thing to say but I'd like to see dedicated Scottish people who have local knowledge, history and patriotism to offer ideas for bus services in scotland including glasgow, if we were to give up Andrew Jarvis I'd welcome the idea of someone with a new level of attention running First Group in Scotland, people have said that he is rather fond of public transport which I am not disputing but in my experience it's rare that when someone becomes an important part of running a business overtime it simply becomes a job to them and no longer that which need compassion, creativity and fervour for the local area which a bus operates in.

 

[PaulMc7]

Amongst us it is known that glasgow do not have it's own social media teams nor it seems a dedicated PR boss for each subsidary area

Yeah based in Leeds from what I've read and heard as a cost cutting method. Would benefit them so much having it individually and would probably encourage more people to use their services if they had the right info on them

 

[Stan Drews]

Amongst us it is known that glasgow do not have it's own social media teams nor it seems a dedicated PR boss for each subsidary area.

Forgive me if it's an extreme anglophobic thing to say but I'd like to see dedicated Scottish people who have local knowledge, history and patriotism to offer ideas for bus services in scotland including glasgow, if we were to give up Andrew Jarvis I'd welcome the idea of someone with a new level of attention running First Group in Scotland, people have said that he is rather fond of public transport which I am not disputing but in my experience it's rare that when someone becomes an important part of running a business overtime it simply becomes a job to them and no longer that which need compassion, creativity and fervour for the local area which a bus operates in.

I think Andrew Jarvis has been a breath of fresh air since he moved to First. It’s guys like him, and a few others at English OpCos, that are starting to have a positive impact in certain areas.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I think Andrew Jarvis has been a breath of fresh air since he moved to First. It’s guys like him, and a few others at English OpCos, that are starting to have a positive impact in certain areas.

Its highly unlikely that many would agree with that statement.

I have experience of working under andrew jarvis rule with his time at Stagecoach East Scotland, he was not a popular individual whilst there, only now do I understand where many of the cost cutting measures have been born from.

 

[PaulMc7]

Its highly unlikely that many would agree with that statement.

I have experience of working under andrew jarvis rule with his time at Stagecoach East Scotland, he was not a popular individual whilst there, only now do I understand where many of the cost cutting measures have been born from.

I think the cost cutting with First has happened for most of their time here tbh. Even when it comes to depot closures we've had Larkfield, Parkhead, Cumbernauld and Anniesland all close and we have just 5 now with only 2 in Glasgow. There's some services like the 263 for example that used to be every 12mins years ago and is down to 30mins. Even Simplicity was bigged up majorly just to hide cuts but people caught on

 

[PaulMc7]

http://hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2323

This was from 2005 and look at the difference compared to now. Seems like a completely different network to now but it shows how times change

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think the network is largely fine the way it is although some changes have be done to improve reliability.

First Glasgow's predecessors Strathclyde's Buses and Kelvin Central tinkered far too often with their networks. After First took over they had an incursion from Stagecoach to deal with. Once that had settled down First launched the Overground which marketed 20 routes and the big dealbreakers were frequent timetables from 0700-1900, increase of evening provision and some routes running 24 hours and 365 days. That was allowed to settle for around 4/5 years then came the constant tinkering again and the Overground concept fizzled out until Simplicity was brought in.

Since Simplicity we haven't seen any major changes and this has brought stability to the network. Maybe we should be thankful for that.

 

[cnjb8]

Whilst I get the whole colourful coded branding of routes to help perhaps those who are hard of sight or simply to make the route stand out for all, especially when the bus is travelling together down renfrew street with a whole load of other services.

However, I feel that using specific branding especially when it's on more than just a hand full of routes it starts to subdue the companies standard livery as a whole(even though the standard lilac livery just melds in to the background), personally it appears to break up the companies services, whether it's a bad thing or not is I suppose in the eye of the beholder.

Like a few others seem to support on here I would like to see a return of a very nice black and strathclyde-red livery, a bold and it certainly would be a distintive option if yous ask me, even then though I feel that even with a new brash change of appearance for First Glasgow it would be over shadowed by there murky past.

I think they were trying the whole Nottingham City Transport branding. But you're right the spare livery does blend with the background. That's why NCT have added a splash of blue to their spares.

 

[tbtc]

The 8 is a tougher one because it's busier in patches and quieter in other areas but certainly with the 90 branding relating to the fact it covers 3 hospitals and Braehead which is one of the better shopping centres around could definitely be a path to follow. Always feel like the fact they both cover the Forge could be a thing to capitalise on too. Would also change the 8 to a 91 for better numbering too as it fits with the 90 and also fits in better in Springburn as it would be an 87/88/89/90/91 series

I liked the way that First had the 89/90 on the old Overground map as a grey line to make people aware of the orbital service - I think that branding the 8 and 90 as similarly numbered services would be a positive move - whilst a lot of people will know the bus service to get into town they may not be aware of the orbital services around Glasgow - I think that more could be made of these "other" routes (as they'll dwindle away otherwise).

There are a number of opportunities to get to the QEII/ Partick/ Maryhill/ Springburn/ Parkhead (etc) for passengers without going all the way into the city centre to change onto another linear service - it'd be good to see these being advertised more (e.g. timetables saying things like "Partick - change here for the 8/77 to the QEII" - otherwise the temptation will be a car/taxi to a place that isn't on your direct bus service into the city centre.

It doesn't have to be expensively branded buses, just something as cheap as putting notices in buses - e.g. if a vehicle is allocated to the 2 then put a sign in the advert frame behind the driver showing some of the connections you can make along the 2 route (hospitals/ shopping centres/ parks) - encourage passengers to see the opportunities - if you're running these services then why not promote them?

Sadly First don't seem to find middle ground between "spend huge money branding vehicles, limiting their flexibility" and "doing absolutely nothing" - average passengers probably won't bother hunting around on your website to find information but the captive audience on board your buses will notice an advert telling them something like "did you know that you can change at Partick to get a frequent service 77 to the Hospital/ Braehead/ Airport".

 

[PaulMc7]

I remember that grey line quite well. I do like that we've had a lot of solid performing core routes but the thing that needs to change for me is the constant axing of services that run outside the city centre that they've not even tried to change first to give a different area an option. This is where a bit of discussion with customers could really work IMO. There's some routes that probably would have survived had it not been for a lack of advertisement and also no opportunity for customer feedback. I use the X1 as the best example. From the Facebook posts and Twitter posts I've seen people are beyond livid about it coming off and understandably so. Would it have been so hard to run it at peaks and every hour off peak? Could even have put it into the Fort to give Hamilton a link to there. Whitelaws 252 from Stonehouse to Glasgow Fort has looked busy when I've seen it so it could have been an option. Even with the 19A coming off I don't think they realise how busy Royston can be and there's quite a few people that use it up to Robroyston Asda especially. The 8 was always the quieter Robroyston bus when I've been there plus on a Sunday the 8A doesn't go towards Riddrie til 11:30 roughly and towards Maryhill until just before 12 too so it'll push more people towards cars and having to stay home. The last 8 past Robroyston midweek to Parkhead is also just after 6 with a couple of 8As to Riddrie afterwards. That's pretty poor compared to the 19A

 

[Stan Drews]

Its highly unlikely that many would agree with that statement.

I have experience of working under andrew jarvis rule with his time at Stagecoach East Scotland, he was not a popular individual whilst there, only now do I understand where many of the cost cutting measures have been born from.

Any ‘cost cutting measures’ will be to achieve targets set from people much higher up the tree than Mr Jarvis. I’m not sure what work you did under him at SES, but certainly most of the middle/senior managers I know that have worked for him, have largely found him to be one of the better MDs around.