WCML Pendolino refurbishment suggestions and predictions

[hexagon789]

Having the same number of 1st class vehicles on all Class 390s would make sense and giving much needed extra standard class capacity especially on the Scottish route.
At the moment though VT do sell a lot of 1st class upgrades at weekends, so would lose some of that capacity and extra revenue.

I hope they keep the shop area or turn it back into more of a buffet area. A trolley only service will be a massive backwards step. The two should be run together with at seat hot food and drink service in standard. Full dining service for first class with pre-orders.

Keep the main lighting ambient/subdued with better bright directional spot lights for each seat, with plug sockets/USB charging points. Better backseat tables able to hold a laptop and drinks.
Better seat/window alignment. Keep the airline/bay table seating about the same proportions but with more legroom for all seats but especially in standard and keep them comfortable not firm.
Larger overhead luggage racks.
Full Passenger Information Systems. Seat reservation LED indicators like on IETs.

Make these trains BEST IN CLASS. Do not ruin a good product, make it better for all, leisure and business.
Keep train travel an enjoyable experience. There is not much of that left now.

I can see the shop being downgraded, I fear it's unlikely to be upgraded with the present trend for doing the exact opposite; a purely trolley service in standard would be a bit of a downgrade though

 

[Bletchleyite]

@DarloRich - You're about the only person I've ever heard moan about the actual seats on a Pendolino - moans I hear are about legroom and lack of window view. What exactly do you find uncomfortable about them?

I'd swap them for contoured ironing boards and enjoy the extra 2" of legroom that would bring[1], but they wouldn't be as *comfortable*, it'd just mean I could sit in all of them rather than only the priority and table seats.

[1] Yes, it really makes that much difference - the Northern Connect refurb 158s have near enough the as-built layout but with ironing boards, and legroom is exceptionally generous, whereas on the original units it's very tight.

 

[DarloRich]

You're about the only person I've ever heard moan about the actual seats on a Pendolino - moans I hear are about legroom and lack of window view. What exactly do you find uncomfortable about them?

Thin, narrow, hard, badly padded and the seat base seems to cut off circulation to my legs! I don't know or care about seat typres or names. I just want a seat that doesn't mean I have numb feet by about Warrington! The Pendos are long distance intercitry trains and I always feel cramped and unconformable on a pendo in a way I don't on comparable intercity stock. The seats are crap.

The few times I have been in first class is entirely different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thin, narrow, hard, badly padded and the seat base seems to cut off circulation to my legs! I don't know or care about seat typres or names. I just want a seat that doesn't mean I have numb feet by about Warrington! The Pendos are long distance intercitry trains and I always feel cramped and unconformable on a pendo in a way I don't on comparable intercity stock. The seats are crap.

They aren't thin compared with ironing boards or Sophias. But compared with IC70s they were to be fair.

Narrow - isn't going to be solved unless you go for a very narrow aisle?

The few times I have been in first class is entirely different.

In my view Pendolino 1st is the best in the country and long has been.

 

[DarloRich]

They aren't thin compared with ironing boards or Sophias. But compared with IC70s they were to be fair.

perhaps i have been spoilt traveling on proper trains on the east coast for so long. The Pendo seats are awful in comparison!

Narrow - isn't going to be solved unless you go for a very narrow aisle?

or buy a better train

 

[Bletchleyite]

perhaps i have been spoilt traveling on proper trains on the east coast for so long. The Pendo seats are awful in comparison

The Mk4 seats are *particularly* soft, to be fair to you

or buy a better train

HS2 will bring that. If it's canned, a fleet replacement for the WCML may well be worth consideration.

 

[LOL The Irony]

How about declassifying coach G on the busiest trains so they have sufficient first class for the weekend?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about declassifying coach G on the busiest trains so they have sufficient first class for the weekend?

They could cut the Weekend First prices a bit. They've got rather expensive now, I've given up using it at the present price. Stick it back to £15 for longer journeys and £10 for shorter and bin off the free food (which isn't worth the extra, just go back to tea/coffee/water) and they will get plenty more takers again. Thirty quid is just too much for an impulse buy, which is essentially what Weekend First is, and the First Off Peaks are outrageously priced. And £15 for a half hour journey from Euston to MKC is royally taking the mick - with a Railcard you won't even have paid that for your Day Travelcard.

 

[GrimShady]

Definitely doesn't need brighter lights. It's nice and cosy.

Agreed. Subdued lighting is about the only charm the units have IMO.

Lighting on the IEP is horrific.

 

[43096]

@DarloRich - You're about the only person I've ever heard moan about the actual seats on a Pendolino - moans I hear are about legroom and lack of window view. What exactly do you find uncomfortable about them?

I'd swap them for contoured ironing boards and enjoy the extra 2" of legroom that would bring[1], but they wouldn't be as *comfortable*, it'd just mean I could sit in all of them rather than only the priority and table seats.

[1] Yes, it really makes that much difference - the Northern Connect refurb 158s have near enough the as-built layout but with ironing boards, and legroom is exceptionally generous, whereas on the original units it's very tight.

Really? The standard seats in Pendolinos and Voyagers have long been a source of complaints. I have posted in the past about how grossly uncomfortable they are.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Really? The standard seats in Pendolinos and Voyagers have long been a source of complaints. I have posted in the past about how grossly uncomfortable they are.

But as I say about a million times on here - it’s all matter of opinion. Whether the current seats are good enough or not some people will say yes others will say no. It’s quite simple really, yet I’ve had to remind people this multiple times

 

[EE Andy b1]

Really? The standard seats in Pendolinos and Voyagers have long been a source of complaints. I have posted in the past about how grossly uncomfortable they are.

Well that's just your opinion. Like everything else, everyone's opinion differs.
That's why we never get what we want because.others want something else!

 

[Energy]

I'm not sure on the trolley, if they have a page on their wifi so you can order food from your phone and it comes to you, that sounds great but if they are just going to change it to a trolley with no warm food I wouldn't be too happy if I was travelling from London to Scotland.
With regards to the seats, the ones on the XC voyagers are comfy although this varies depending on seat as some have not that much padding. My only complaint was that rubbish had been left down the side of the seat, guess that is Arriva for you.

 

[BucksBones]

There is nothing wrong with the seats that replacing them with nicer seats wouldn't fix

Ha ha!! As you say yourself, whatever you may think of the current ones, the new ones will be worse, guaranteed. I can sit in a pendolino up to Scotland without needing an osteopath at the end but can’t say that about those GWR 800s.*

*(I know they don’t go to Scotland!!)

 

[BucksBones]

I'm not sure on the trolley, if they have a page on their wifi so you can order food from your phone and it comes to you, that sounds great but if they are just going to change it to a trolley with no warm food I wouldn't be too happy if I was travelling from London to Scotland.

I would second that; if it’s decent stuff I’m happy for it to be brought to my seat; also I suppose it’s a good thing not to have passengers stumbling up and down the train with hot drinks.

On the other hand, if it’s your standard trolley service offering horrible lukewarm drinks (ie hot drinks that are not hot and cold drinks that are not cold!) and a choice of a whole 2 different nasty sandwiches then clearly that’s a backward step!

 

[43096]

But as I say about a million times on here - it’s all matter of opinion. Whether the current seats are good enough or not some people will say yes others will say no. It’s quite simple really, yet I’ve had to remind people this multiple times

Maybe you should read what I was replying to. Nowhere have I said it’s anything other than my opinion, albeit one shared by others.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm not sure on the trolley, if they have a page on their wifi so you can order food from your phone and it comes to you, that sounds great but if they are just going to change it to a trolley with no warm food I wouldn't be too happy if I was travelling from London to Scotland.
With regards to the seats, the ones on the XC voyagers are comfy although this varies depending on seat as some have not that much padding. My only complaint was that rubbish had been left down the side of the seat, guess that is Arriva for you.

Definitely not, if it goes the way of GWR's IETs a lot of people won't be too pleased.

 

[JonathanH]

They could cut the Weekend First prices a bit. They've got rather expensive now, I've given up using it at the present price. Stick it back to £15 for longer journeys and £10 for shorter and bin off the free food (which isn't worth the extra, just go back to tea/coffee/water) and they will get plenty more takers again. Thirty quid is just too much for an impulse buy, which is essentially what Weekend First is, and the First Off Peaks are outrageously priced. And £15 for a half hour journey from Euston to MKC is royally taking the mick - with a Railcard you won't even have paid that for your Day Travelcard.

If we are talking in another thread about passenger-selected seat reservations in standard class costing £5 for the best seats, perhaps £10 for weekend first would be somewhat cheap. £30 seems completely in scale to me.

I'm not sure that upgrading for first class from Euston to Milton Keynes is worth it at any price. Why would someone do that? Why would the train operator want to encourage it?

 

[EE Andy b1]

Could we fit reversible airline seating into a Pendolino?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could we fit reversible airline seating into a Pendolino?

The problem with reversible seating is that it requires a seat pitch far more generous than the UK TOCs are willing to give to allow a pair of seats to rotate.

 

[EE Andy b1]

The problem with reversible seating is that it requires a seat pitch far more generous than the UK TOCs are willing to give to allow a pair of seats to rotate.

Yep, so we have no chance.

 

[hexagon789]

The problem with reversible seating is that it requires a seat pitch far more generous than the UK TOCs are willing to give to allow a pair of seats to rotate.

What if it's non-rotating like in some old tramcars where the back just flips over.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What if it's non-rotating like in some old tramcars where the back just flips over.

Oh because that’s going to be really comfortable isn’t it

 

[Jozhua]

I'm sure the seats can provide sufficient cushioning without taking all the space the current ones do...

Ironing boards are no good for people with spines, but the current setup is no good for people with legs.

Perhaps a compromise could be found. Or they'll just make the backs super low as well and make them no good for people with heads either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What if it's non-rotating like in some old tramcars where the back just flips over.

Is such a seat on the market?

 

[BucksBones]

What if it's non-rotating like in some old tramcars where the back just flips over.

The seat-back tables that you’d have to have on both sides might dig into the spine somewhat...!

 

[BucksBones]

Could we fit reversible airline seating into a Pendolino?

Reversible seating only works in Japan because everyone is used to the system; the rule is that you move your seat round when the train reverses (as they do quite a lot in Japan) and if anyone doesn’t play along (ie tourists!) it causes quite some upset. I can just imagine the confusion and arguments it would cause here! Also they don’t work as bays of 4, there’s not enough room (I’ve tried it); in order to have adequate legroom as a bay, the legroom when in airline mode would have to be colossal. It has to be generous to allow for the pivoting in any case. And you can’t have any tables.

To sum up: no chance!

 

[hexagon789]

Is such a seat on the market?

No idea

 

[hexagon789]

The seat-back tables that you’d have to have on both sides might dig into the spine somewhat...!

Didn't think of that tbh, and as rotating seats don't suit I was really just trying to think of an alternative without thinking it through carefully

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW the existing seat seems very similar to the FISA LEAN - but would they go that way, or would they go for something thinner...I still know what I'd expect