WCML Pendolino refurbishment suggestions and predictions

[Jozhua]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-new-rolling-stock-discussion.188847/page-13#post-4228068

Has any plans of fleet refurbishment been mentioned?

The Pandolinos aren't horrific, but they are starting to look awfully tatty.

Obviously the seat alignment is pretty poor and the interior does feel fairly space inefficient, the width of walls is quite considerable!

The stock is also missing things which are fairly basic by modern standards, such as power sockets and USB ports in more areas than just the occasional table seat.

The toilets, like those on the 220/1/2's could probably do with some sprucing up while we're at it

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has any plans of fleet refurbishment been mentioned?

Yes, including new seats. (I'm going to hazard a guess as to which ones )

 

[BucksBones]

Yes, including new seats. (I'm going to hazard a guess as to which ones )

Apart from anything else that seems very wasteful; there’s nothing wrong with the seats, they just need re-covering.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from anything else that seems very wasteful; there’s nothing wrong with the seats, they just need re-covering.

I suspect it will be so thinner seats can be fitted, allowing both an extra row *and* more legroom. Comfort wise I like the Pendolino/Voyager seats, but they are quite thick-backed, and the legroom is too tight unless I'm in a priority or table seat.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, including new seats. (I'm going to hazard a guess as to which ones )

Whatever the seats are going to be it's a fair assumption that they will be more uncomfortable than the current ones.

 

[Energy]

The pendolinos, look modern on the outside (especially in the old livery imo) but in the inside it feels from around 2007 at the latest... I'll be interested what they put in, considering how crowded they get I hope they don't put in the KeTech information screens from the Civitys and elsewhere as they would probably get blocked by people standing in the way, the ones in the 745/755s look nice and could work for the pendolino. Although worryingly they seem to have the KeTech ones on Hull Trains, hopefully First decide they aren't suitable...
Also on an unrelated note, although I sort of mentioned it in this post, does anyone know who supplies the PIS system on the 755s, I can't seem to find who does it.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They felt fine a decade ago but they're showing their edge now, as a trip from Preston to Edinburgh on Monday demonstrated. Still, said trip should only cost £6 after VT refund half of the £12 fare due to a 30min delay

 

[hexagon789]

The only thing I saw was that first class will be reduced to 3-cars in all trains; but I cannot remember where and that may well be a rumour rather than fact.

Are first class loadings such that that would cause an issue? GWR after all reduced HST first class by one vehicle and that didn't seem to adversely affect anything, the extea standard class capacity it produced was eaten up quickly enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are first class loadings such that that would cause an issue?

I suspect not, particularly if they install some single seats.

 

[Terry Tait]

The Pendolino needs to be made to feel more like a train than an economy airplane, luggage racks do not require a window view, however, customers do.
As far as the seats are concerned, I would like to see the seats used on 745s used in Pendolino stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Pendolino needs to be made to feel more like a train than an economy airplane, luggage racks do not require a window view, however, customers do.
As far as the seats are concerned, I would like to see the seats used on 745s used in Pendolino stock.

The FISA LEAN? I'm not sure, they are comfortable for certain, but the design has a very thick support pillar on the outside, which means it favours women or lightly built men who can put their legs straight forward into the niche (similar to the original Class 158 seat - it's visible just how space inefficient this design is when you consider that legroom on the original Class 158 feels tight, while on the same layout with ironing boards on the Northern Connect refurbs it is very generous), and is a disadvantage for those of us with bigger legs and backsides who can't.

 

[Roose]

Need less beige and brighter lights inside.

 

[Clansman]

I'll put a few bets on it being brighter lights, thinner seats and more of them, reduced size of table bays to accomodate an extra row of airline seats, seats which accomodate plugs, and an upgraded PIS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Need less beige and brighter lights inside.

Definitely doesn't need brighter lights. It's nice and cosy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll put a few bets on it being brighter lights, thinner seats and more of them, reduced size of table bays to accomodate an extra row of airline seats, seats which accomodate plugs, and an upgraded PIS.

I'd bet on the seats being Fainsa Sophia.

 

[Jozhua]

The only thing I saw was that first class will be reduced to 3-cars in all trains; but I cannot remember where and that may well be a rumour rather than fact.

Are first class loadings such that that would cause an issue? GWR after all reduced HST first class by one vehicle and that didn't seem to adversely affect anything, the extea standard class capacity it produced was eaten up quickly enough.

Guess they're not the only trains to have too much First Class! EMT's 222's seem to have fallen victim to the issue as well. I believe as many as 3-cars are first class on just a 7 car train. First class is generally overpriced anyway for what you get, food isn't even very good. Guess it's just aimed at travellers who aren't paying for the ticket themselves and can just claim expenses.

The Pendolino needs to be made to feel more like a train than an economy airplane, luggage racks do not require a window view, however, customers do.
As far as the seats are concerned, I would like to see the seats used on 745s used in Pendolino stock.

Honestly, if the Pendolino interior felt like that of a modern economy airplane, it would be a step forwards! Flew an Aer Lingus A320 the other week, it was spacious, bright and clean inside. All things Pendolinos/Voyagers are not!

Looking at pictures the 745's look a million dollars compared to the 390 seating. I definitely have a preference for headrests with more defined corners, like those on the EMR 158's and 222's and of course the 745's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at pictures the 745's look a million dollars compared to the 390 seating. I definitely have a preference for headrests with more defined corners, like those on the EMR 158's and 222's and of course the 745's.

Only if they're not so low down they catch the backs of my shoulders.

 

[hexagon789]

I suspect not, particularly if they install some single seats.

In which case it might be true then, certainly some services seem in need of an extra Std class carriage.

 

[hexagon789]

Guess they're not the only trains to have too much First Class! EMT's 222's seem to have fallen victim to the issue as well. I believe as many as 3-cars are first class on just a 7 car train. First class is generally overpriced anyway for what you get, food isn't even very good. Guess it's just aimed at travellers who aren't paying for the ticket themselves and can just claim expenses.

It's better in both cases than as originally all the Pendolinos were all going to be 8-car - 4 first/4 standard.

Slightly off-topic but as the first bit related to 390s hopefully it's alright - the Meridians were originally 9-car and 4-car. The current 4-car were Hull Trains, the 7-car and one 5-car were 9 originally with 3 first/6 standard, the other 5-cars were originally 4 - exactly as now but minus a full Standard.

Thank goodness the Pendolinos are not still 4 first, 4 standard and I'm sure many people will be pleased that the 11-cars will be getting additional standard class seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank goodness the Pendolinos are not still 4 first, 4 standard

Indeed. It didn't take long for Coach G to be near permanently declassified. Alongside the Voyager debacle that was definitely one of the more foolish things VT did - 2 and 6 would have made more sense when they were 8-car.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed. It didn't take long for Coach G to be near permanently declassified. Alongside the Voyager debacle that was definitely one of the more foolish things VT did - 2 and 6 would have made more sense when they were 8-car.

Though that was only during preview services wasn't it and only about the first 16/17 or so sets?

I'm sure they were all up to 9-car by 2005 iirc.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

While the Virgin Trains interior is in my opinion timeless, comfortable and welcoming - the only good thing I can see potentially coming from this refurbishment is of course - the installation of window seat armrests?

 

[47271]

I'll put a few bets on it being brighter lights, thinner seats and more of them, reduced size of table bays to accomodate an extra row of airline seats, seats which accomodate plugs, and an upgraded PIS.

Yes, all of that. The style could be known as 'First Group Dystopian Express'.

Might as well paint them in GWR green while they're at it and everyone will think they're getting on a brand new train.

Oh, and the seats covered in a cheapo flat cloth which gets covered in stains within weeks and needs to be replaced with traditional moquette after a year.

 

[EE Andy b1]

The only thing I saw was that first class will be reduced to 3-cars in all trains; but I cannot remember where and that may well be a rumour rather than fact.

Are first class loadings such that that would cause an issue? GWR after all reduced HST first class by one vehicle and that didn't seem to adversely affect anything, the extea standard class capacity it produced was eaten up quickly enough.

Having the same number of 1st class vehicles on all Class 390s would make sense and giving much needed extra standard class capacity especially on the Scottish route.
At the moment though VT do sell a lot of 1st class upgrades at weekends, so would lose some of that capacity and extra revenue.

I hope they keep the shop area or turn it back into more of a buffet area. A trolley only service will be a massive backwards step. The two should be run together with at seat hot food and drink service in standard. Full dining service for first class with pre-orders.

Keep the main lighting ambient/subdued with better bright directional spot lights for each seat, with plug sockets/USB charging points. Better backseat tables able to hold a laptop and drinks.
Better seat/window alignment. Keep the airline/bay table seating about the same proportions but with more legroom for all seats but especially in standard and keep them comfortable not firm.
Larger overhead luggage racks.
Full Passenger Information Systems. Seat reservation LED indicators like on IETs.

Make these trains BEST IN CLASS. Do not ruin a good product, make it better for all, leisure and business.
Keep train travel an enjoyable experience. There is not much of that left now.

 

[Jozhua]

Only if they're not so low down they catch the backs of my shoulders.

Adjustable ones would be quite fantastic! I'm sure they'd go down well with passengers too.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Is the Shop being kept in? I hope it stays as it’s much better than waiting for a trolley with a limited selection to come round.

I know the current set up on some services is that the shop will open and a trolley will board somewhere, mainly during the week

 

[route101]

Is the Shop being kept in? I hope it stays as it’s much better than waiting for a trolley with a limited selection to come round.

I know the current set up on some services is that the shop will open and a trolley will board somewhere, mainly during the week

A trolley is a rare thing on VTWC , only seen it twice , boards at Carlisle.

Id like to see more single seats in first class .

 

[Bletchleyite]

The wording is a bit weasel, but it reads to me like the Shop goes in favour of a trolley.

 

[StaffsWCML]

I think the shop will be replaced with some kind of in app order service, really this would be the logical thing to do.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite simple specification for me ( a regular user in cattle class)

• Rip out 1st class. I am sick of standing while nearly half the train is wasted space.
• Better seats. The current ones are horrible. ( They will be replaced by thinner seats through making the journey even less enjoyable)
• Plugs at every seat
• decent free wifi
• better lighting
• less drab internal decorations
• swap the luggage rack with the seats with a view of white plastic land.
• rip out the shop and move to a trolley - replace with more, nicer seats ( the shop is rubbish, expensive and wastes space. )
• extend all to 11 cars ( cant happen sadly)
• sort out the bloody window blinds. They rattle like mad
• Bigger overhead bins ( cant happen sadly)

Keep train travel an enjoyable experience. There is not much of that left now.

are they going to retire the pendos and replace them with a decent train because cattle class travel on the Pendo is never enjoyable!

Id like to see more single seats in first class .

I would like to see less first class seats provided.

Apart from anything else that seems very wasteful; there’s nothing wrong with the seats, they just need re-covering.

There is nothing wrong with the seats that replacing them with nicer seats wouldn't fix