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Wearing a Hi-Viz

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adamp

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When photographing trains say at a crossing, would it be a sensible idea to wear an orange hi-viz vest?
And if so would you not get mistaken for a member of Network Rail then be expected to signal back to the driver (who should have sounded their horn) ?
-Adam
 
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asylumxl

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I'd imagine if you weren't on the crossing you'd be fine. If you don't want to be mistaken for NR, wear a yellow high viz, orange is usually worn by railway workers.

If you intend to be on the crossing when it is down, i believe it's classed as trespassing.
 

Surreytraveller

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You could get accused of impersonating a railway employee (which is a criminal offence) if you did that. Or charged by some over-zealous police officer under the anti-terrorism act! If you are in an area to where the public have access, then there is no need for a HVV.
 

Spagnoletti

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If you're not at work for NR, one of their subcontractors or a TOC then you have no business being anywhere where hi-vis would be required, surely?
 

First class

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Guidelines explicitly state NOT to work Hi-viz clothing.

"Avoid wearing anything which is similar in colour to safety clothing, such as high -visibility jackets, as this could cause confusion to drivers or other railway employees."

I personally just think you want to confuse the driver and want them to sound the horn. Why would you need a hi-viz at a crossing? Most pedestrians seem to cross just fine. You will be on the correct side of the barriers therefore you have no need to wear one.

I'd also like to draw your attention to these other guidelines:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.html
 

asylumxl

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I personally just think you want to confuse the driver and want them to sound the horn. Why would you need a hi-viz at a crossing? Most pedestrians seem to cross just fine. You will be on the correct side of the barriers therefore you have no need to wear one.

I totally disagree. Why would he want thm to sound the horn for photos?

He just wishes to practice his hobby as safely as possible, hence hes asking this question.

As far as pedestrians in high vis go, so a cyclist standing at a crossing is impersonating a railway worker?
 

jopsuk

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I have an orange hi-vis cycle jacket. Mainly just to be different.

The issue with photters/spotters wearing hi-vis is mainly a question of WHY? Hi-vis is only needed if for safety you need to be seen- thus trackworkers, road workers, construction workers, factory yard workers and cyclists, all of whom have an interest in being seen by drivers of things that might hit them.

If you're taking photos of trains, you should never be in a place where you might be in danger. THus, there's no need for hivis. Wearing hivis SHOULDN'T make photting safer.
 

theblackwatch

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There is no reason for wearing a hi vis.They are for railway staff. It amazes me when you got to a gala or event and there are all these kids wandering around in hi-vi gear thinking they look important, when in reality most people are looking at them and thinking 'idiot' or 'tosser'. The same goes for those stood in fields photting.
 

D107

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There is no reason for wearing a hi vis.They are for railway staff. It amazes me when you got to a gala or event and there are all these kids wandering around in hi-vi gear thinking they look important, when in reality most people are looking at them and thinking 'idiot' or 'tosser'. The same goes for those stood in fields photting.

Absolutely. No need to wear an HV if you are not working on or near the line. Too many people wear one to seemingly add an air of importance to their enthusiast activities.
 

asylumxl

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There is no reason for wearing a hi vis.They are for railway staff. It amazes me when you got to a gala or event and there are all these kids wandering around in hi-vi gear thinking they look important, when in reality most people are looking at them and thinking 'idiot' or 'tosser'. The same goes for those stood in fields photting.
In reply to you and the post above..


Thats hilarious! Cos as a professional photographer i'm required to wear High Vis, and i'm not any of the things you mentioned.

Did you ever consider that those of us with public liability insurance are obliged to follow Health and Safety, and that includes high vis, for cover to be valid?

This isnt just a question about railways, it's also about photography. Provided he isnt on the crossing he cannot be accused of impersonating a railway worker.

Did you consider that?
 

adamp

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Firstly id just like to say I have never deliberately waved at a train or anything which makes them sound their horns. Even when doing videos i dont as i prefer trains in their 'natural' environment. Im just asking wether it would be a good idea in the aspect of safety if your at a small crossing (not one with barriers).
In which case from the responses
recieved it wouldnt be neccessary.
Dont get all heated like the above post its just a query about safety so if something happened it cant be said "Well you should of been wearing a HiViz vest"
Ta.
 
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GB

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If you want to wear a yellow high viz vest to allow you to be seen better by road users I cant see the problem in that.

However, as others have said, you shouldnt be anywhere near or on the railway that would require the use of a high viz vest anyway so wearing an orange one is not a good idea.

The reason why the railways use orange is becuase it is not a natural colour and can be seen alot further away than yellow. In the summer amoungst bright folliage yellow could get lost.
 

theblackwatch

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In reply to you and the post above..


Thats hilarious! Cos as a professional photographer i'm required to wear High Vis, and i'm not any of the things you mentioned.

Did you ever consider that those of us with public liability insurance are obliged to follow Health and Safety, and that includes high vis, for cover to be valid?

This isnt just a question about railways, it's also about photography. Provided he isnt on the crossing he cannot be accused of impersonating a railway worker.

Did you consider that?

My comment "There is no reason for wearing a hi vis.They are for railway staff" was obviously in relation to people hanging around near the railways wearing a hi-vis and not at times when there is a legal rquirement to do so. Are you saying that because you are a 'pro' you have to wander around the platform or in a field wearing a hi-vis? I'd be interested to say which H&S laws related to wearing them on farmers fields or public footpaths/overbridges. Must remember to pull up Mr Bigland next time I see him without one on the station, open day or at a gala....




 

moonrakerz

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Are you saying that because you are a 'pro' you have to wander around the platform or in a field wearing a hi-vis? I'd be interested to say which H&S laws related to wearing them on farmers fields or public footpaths/overbridges.

I think this all boils down to people who don't know what they are doing grossly over interpreting H & S - as usual all they do is make the whole thing look stupid. I can see the point of track workers wearing hi-vis - but a photographer ?? He shouldn't be anywhere near enough to a train to be a danger to himself - if he has to wear it on the platform, shouldn't all the "customers" ?

My favourite piece of this type of stupidity is regularly seen on Time Team: the archaeologists standing in a "trench" six inches deep all dutifully wearing their bump hats !!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just remembered this one ....................

From the National Rail Website - "Stations made easy". (Darlington)

A professional photographer ? look at the camera !
Would a "professional" produce - and publish ! - a photograph like this ?

But at least an HST (High Speed Toilet) driver would see him I suppose !

27x2b04.jpg
[/IMG]
 
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Old Timer

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The wearing of a HV Vest and being within the fence line sends out the message that one is Railway staff.

In the cass of staff, there are certain requirements as to visibility of approaching trains which actually mean that staff on duty cannot access the lines at certain foot crossings.

Being within the fence line can result in a Driver assuming that you are a member of staff who is in a dnagerous or improper position, or is on the track without a Lookoutman or other visible means of protection. This would result in the matter being reported to the Signalman, trains potentially being cautioned, and a visit from the nearest NR response unit.

The whole point of HV Clothing on the Railway is for the Driver to observe staff on the ground at a sufficient distance so as to be able to give an appropriate warning of the approaching train.

If you are taking a photograph then you should not be in such a position that you NEED to receive such a warning, and thus the wearing of HV clothing is of no use, indeed it is more likely to result in a visit by the NR response unit, BT Police, or even the Civil Police.

As an aside technically foot crossings are provided as a means to cross the line rather than as a place where one hangs about, in which case inside the fence line it technically becomes trespass.

You are far better off NOT wearing any form of HV clothing than doing so.

I never wear my gear in such situations, and thus the Drivers assume I am either a user waiting for them to pass, or observe that I am taking photos.

One should definitely NOT stand on any part of the actual foot crossing to take a photograph in case it gives the Driver any worries as to your intentions or your awareness, as this will almost definitely result in a visit from the BT / Civil Police, who may be less than responsive to you wanting to stay there.
 

GodAtum

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I see loads of cyclists wearing yellow hi-vis jackets at the station. They dont seeem too bothered.
 

jopsuk

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I think a common sense approach is taken to people in hivis on station platforms. A lot of cyclists do wear weatherproof hivis rather than just vests, so can't exactly be reasonably expected to remove/cover it up.
 

ukrob

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Firstly id just like to say I have never deliberately waved at a train or anything which makes them sound their horns. Even when doing videos i dont as i prefer trains in their 'natural' environment. Im just asking wether it would be a good idea in the aspect of safety if your at a small crossing (not one with barriers).
In which case from the responses
recieved it wouldnt be neccessary.
Dont get all heated like the above post its just a query about safety so if something happened it cant be said "Well you should of been wearing a HiViz vest"
Ta.

You will be perfectly safe provided you are not where you should not be, so the question is redundant, no?
 

ralphchadkirk

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Something that I find ironic is that railway staff (platforms - not infrastructure) try hard not to wear the hivi unless their duties require it!

I personally only wear a h/v if the rulebook requires it. Never any other time unless I or the rulebook deem it nessecary for safety. I'm one of those people who see's photographers wandering round in high vis andI tend to think much worse words than tosser.

Photographers should never need to be in a situation where they need to wear high vis! They shouldn't be on or near the line so don't need it. You don't need it when travelling either.
 

Aictos

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Something that I find ironic is that railway staff (platforms - not infrastructure) try hard not to wear the hivi unless their duties require it!

I personally only wear a h/v if the rulebook requires it. Never any other time unless I or the rulebook deem it nessecary for safety. I'm one of those people who see's photographers wandering round in high vis andI tend to think much worse words than tosser.

There is no requirement in the rulebook which state dispatchers have to wear hi vis, it's just down to each company issuing their own guidelines and just so the drivers or guards as the case may be can see the dispatcher.

Take my East Coast dispatching colleagues at Peterborough, they have been told rightly that there is no requirement to wear a hi vis while dispatching as opposed to me and my FCC colleagues who get told that there is a requirement to wear a hi vis while dispatching.

I've got a idea that passengers are more likely to come up and ask me a question if I'm not wearing a hi vis then if I did which has been proved to be right even though the company tells us to wear one while on duty to be highly visible to all, both passengers and drivers.

The only time I should need to wear a hi vis is in times of disruption as it's a easy way to id staff or in times of emergencies.

However as I have said above the requirement which my company state we have to do is utter tosh, now I did a little experiment on my passengers where I didn't wear a hi vis for a few days when on the early shift which can be busy first thing, I had more passengers asking me travel enquires then I did wearing a hi vis which just goes to show that the FCC guidelines have been placed there by management who misread the rulebook and who have no idea of what they talking about!

I'm more then happy to not wear a hi vis as drivers know the difference between passengers and dispatchers, if there was a problem with the drivers or guards seeing the dispatcher then how did GNER and NXEC cope?
 

GB

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I've got a idea that passengers are more likely to come up and ask me a question if I'm not wearing a hi vis then if I did.

I have found it to be the total oppersite.
 

73110

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If you wanted to wear one to be 'safe' then you should not be in a position (as mentioned previous) to take pictures so you really really do not need one at all. I can't see any reason in the world why a spotter/non pro photographer would own a HV vest, unless of course they worked on a private railway.

If on the other hand you wanted to wear it to take spotting/photography, to a new dimension then I am afraid that is the saddest thing I have ever heard.
 

jopsuk

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73310- they might own one for cycling, or for walking along country roads in the dark (it can be smart move then). But then, that applies to everybody, not just the subset of enthusiasts.

Oh, and if you've got a car, it's not a bad idea to have one- if you ever drive in Europe you'll almost certainly be required to have one in your emergency kit.
 

73110

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73310- they might own one for cycling, or for walking along country roads in the dark (it can be smart move then). But then, that applies to everybody, not just the subset of enthusiasts.

Oh, and if you've got a car, it's not a bad idea to have one- if you ever drive in Europe you'll almost certainly be required to have one in your emergency kit.

I was answering the question based on the original question.

Being a cyclist I have a Yellow HV vest and a Yellow windcheater/waterproof jacket. My poncho thing is Yellow too.

When I bought my car kit for travelling abroad a while ago the HV in that is Yellow. Virtually all road HV products are Yellow. :)
 

GB

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Just remember that not all people who wear high viz while taking photographs are "tossers" and there maybe a reason why said person is wearing a high viz.

Something to remember when making blanket assumptions??
 
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