Wearing a "railway uniform" to fare evade ?

[fredmason]

Childhood memory - My uncle used to work for the old EWS in Doncaster back in the 1990s. At some point, my other uncle somehow ended up with one of those red maroon EWS polo shirts. He’d wear it when travelling for work away as a labourer, and he claimed that when the conductor came by, he’d just nod and say, ‘On my way to work, pal.’ Apparently, they never asked to see his ticket—not even once. Just a nod of the head from the conductor and that was it.


I’m not sure if he’s winding me up, but do you think something like that could’ve actually worked back then.

 

[jfollows]

Yes, I’m sure it could have happened, I used to travel with a guard and ticket inspector in the 1970s and nobody asked for tickets of other apparent railway staff then. I think nowadays the people checking tickets are told to be more methodical and stringent.

 

[AlterEgo]

Shades of Carl Haywood.

‘Orgy of offending’ by railway cheat

A TEENAGER who used a stolen ticket machine to print £148,000 worth of “free” first class rail passes has been jailed.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

A TEENAGER who used a stolen ticket machine to print £148,000 worth of “free” first class rail passes has been jailed.

Carl Anthony Haywood’s joyriding spree on the rail network was described by his own barrister as “an orgy of offending”, stemming from an infatuation with the railway. He was sentenced to 12 months in a Young Offenders Institute at York Crown Court yesterday.

…On one occasion, he was caught with 191 such tickets, together worth £148,000. On another, he masqueraded as a railway employee in a bid to get free travel.

 

[ExRes]

Childhood memory - My uncle used to work for the old EWS in Doncaster back in the 1990s. At some point, my other uncle somehow ended up with one of those red maroon EWS polo shirts. He’d wear it when travelling for work away as a labourer, and he claimed that when the conductor came by, he’d just nod and say, ‘On my way to work, pal.’ Apparently, they never asked to see his ticket—not even once. Just a nod of the head from the conductor and that was it.


I’m not sure if he’s winding me up, but do you think something like that could’ve actually worked back then.

I must obviously look dodgy then, I travelled pass regularly on the ECML in the second half of the 90s, always in proper EWS uniform, and was asked more often than not for ID or a diagram, the staff were usually so welcoming I'm surprised they didn't ask for my passport when I was on their miniature Eurostar set

 

[Nym]

It's been long enough now to say as the ToC no longer exists.

But travelling "in uniform" has resulted in some complimentary upgrades over the years, for clarity, one has never asked for but has always graciously accepted such an offer.

Also, when travelling in 1st, one's service is improved somewhat when you're 'family'.

 

[357]

These days it's fairly obvious to those in the know who's staff and who's a spotter with a shirt they bought on eBay.

The spotters never quite have the same look of exhaustion and desperation on their face

I travelled pass regularly on the ECML

I still do, and the hospitality of the traincrew very much depends what depot they are from.

Leeds crews are the best of the bunch that I experience.

 

[jfollows]

I think in the 1970s it was BR and therefore nationalised and therefore “someone else’s money” and ticket collectors didn’t care all that much and would allow anything reasonable, and wouldn’t question anyone in uniform.

Now we’re balkanised and it’s all about “which ToC” and therefore staff fall foul of this.

The upside is that “the railway” would always ensure you got to your destination one way or another. Today, too often, it’s someone else’s fault.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Also people wearing orange HV clothing. Years ago it only seemed like railway staff who wore orange, now it’s builders, and all sorts. There was a passenger who always wore orange who only paid when challenged to produce a ticket. Most staff just thought he worked on the railway. Wrong, he worked for a recycling firm. Eventually he was caught.
We had a guard (now long retired) who would travel by train to visit family up north. He would wear his uniform so he didn’t have to fill out a priv box.

 

[Egg Centric]

Shades of Carl Haywood.

‘Orgy of offending’ by railway cheat

A TEENAGER who used a stolen ticket machine to print £148,000 worth of “free” first class rail passes has been jailed.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

The most interesting bit of that story is it suggests he'd somehow by 18 managed to get £100k in the bank, in 2007. So I then searched Carl Haywood entrepreneur on the basis someone like that had possibly gone on to great things... and found another story of delay repay fraud by (presumably) him a decade later

 

[CC 72100]

We had a guard (now long retired) who would travel by train to visit family up north. He would wear his uniform so he didn’t have to fill out a priv box.

"... Yeah, picked it up off spare. Bloody 12 hour turn this one. Pass to Morpeth and bring the last one back"

 

[lyndhurst25]

I have a Mountain Equipment jacket that is a similar colour and style to Northern staff uniform. I bought and have been wearing it since before Northern introduced their jackets. On a couple of occasions, guards have commented “I thought you were staff for a minute there”, but I have never been offered free travel or any other perks yet!

 

[Krokodil]

The most interesting bit of that story is it suggests he'd somehow by 18 managed to get £100k in the bank, in 2007. So I then searched Carl Haywood entrepreneur on the basis someone like that had possibly gone on to great things... and found another story of delay repay fraud by (presumably) him a decade later

Looking at the details in the Delay Repay case it is definitely the same bloke. Used to blag his way into First Class on the ATW 67-hauled services. The apple didn’t fall far from the tree, I once caught his father and brother trying to use Severn & Solent Rovers (which with a railcard work out less than £10 per day for a decent-sized area) out of Liverpool. Quite a long way from Worcester. The CCST only had an acronym, not the full name printed so it wasn't immediately apparent what it was, so they presumably usually get away with it. They scarpered and used Merseyrail instead, but guess who was working their next connection...

 

[Egg Centric]

Looking at the details in the Delay Repay case it is definitely the same bloke. Used to blag his way into First Class on the ATW 67-hauled services. The apple didn’t fall far from the tree, I once caught his father and brother trying to use Severn & Solent Rovers (which with a railcard work out less than £10 per day for a decent-sized area) out of Liverpool. Quite a long way from Worcester. The CCST only had an acronym, not the full name printed so it wasn't immediately apparent what it was, so they presumably usually get away with it. They scarpered and used Merseyrail instead, but guess who was working their next connection...

That puts another perspective on it and is quite sad then tbh - sent to prison as an 18 year old because of, let's say, "exuberance of youth" is one thing, sent to prison as an 18 year old because of being brought up in a fare evasion cult quite another... it almost sounds movie worthy

 

[Krokodil]

I've a feeling that the father is ex-BR. No idea if the reason that he doesn't have boxes is an innocent one or not.

 

[sheff1]

Yes, I’m sure it could have happened, I used to travel with a guard and ticket inspector in the 1970s and nobody asked for tickets of other apparent railway staff then. I think nowadays the people checking tickets are told to be more methodical and stringent.

Definitely did happen.
Even now I often see, say, Northern staff give people in TPE or LNER uniform a cursory nod with no request for any travel authority - of course they may know them and know they are genuine.

 

[Harpo]

in Virgin days I travelled from Liverpool in the same coach as the jazz musician George Melley, a large man who was wearing a brilliant red blazer. The cheeky scouse conductor asked him ‘Do you work for us sir?’

 

[Iskra]

It's been long enough now to say as the ToC no longer exists.

But travelling "in uniform" has resulted in some complimentary upgrades over the years, for clarity, one has never asked for but has always graciously accepted such an offer.

Also, when travelling in 1st, one's service is improved somewhat when you're 'family'.

A staff ID card left on the table would often result in upgrade fees being ‘forgotten about.’

I agree also, that 1st class service improves immeasurably too. I also feel that similar happens it you dress smartly compared to casual in 1st.

 

[sor]

Slightly different example, but I'm convinced that I once got out of a ticket check because I showed a GWR touch smartcard (it was in the same wallet as another smartcard I actually wanted them to scan). As it has a photo I can see why it might look a bit like an employee ID. This was obviously not on a GWR train, quite some distance away from the nearest one in fact

 

[MrJeeves]

Slightly different example, but I'm convinced that I once got out of a ticket check because I showed a GWR touch smartcard (it was in the same wallet as another smartcard I actually wanted them to scan). As it has a photo I can see why it might look a bit like an employee ID. This was obviously not on a GWR train, quite some distance away from the nearest one in fact

Honestly, I've had many ticket inspectors simply move on when showing my GTR Key smartcard, where they were otherwise checking E-Tickets and paper tickets. It could well have been that they couldn't be bothered to scan the smartcard!

 

[185]

This year:

Chap carted off wearing a Temu body worn camera, a stab vest probably from Wetherspoons doorstaff & a toclite train driver's bag claiming to be a railway RPI becoming very upset at being made to pay, BTP called.

Chap with a lanyard from a TOCs run transport body claiming to be a manager "we run your company" but on closer inspection the ID card from a frozen food processing plant. Stupid TOC run body issued the lanyards to people doing surveys in 2023.

Manager from a well known firm that does cleaning, dispatch & revenue contracts with the railway but turns out Mr "do you know who I am" manages twenty office cleaners at a nearby council premises.

And an actual train company director with an expired pass from their former employer. Settled internally, that one

 

[reb0118]

.......I once caught his father and brother trying to use Severn & Solent Rovers (which with a railcard work out less than £10 per day for a decent-sized area) out of Liverpool. Quite a long way from Worcester. The CCST only had an acronym, not the full name printed.....

FOSS which doesn't mean Freedom Of the South of Scotland as I said to the two chancers I found on the wrong side of the Forth at Inverkeithing. I may even still have these rovers in my "bad boys & girls" box.

 

[Krokodil]

FOSS which doesn't mean Freedom Of the South of Scotland as I said to the two chancers I found on the wrong side of the Forth at Inverkeithing. I may even still have these rovers in my "bad boys & girls" box.

I wonder if it was the same pair...

 

[Egg Centric]

This year:

Chap carted off wearing a Temu body worn camera, a stab vest probably from Wetherspoons doorstaff & a toclite train driver's bag claiming to be a railway RPI becoming very upset at being made to pay, BTP called.

Chap with a lanyard from a TOCs run transport body claiming to be a manager "we run your company" but on closer inspection the ID card from a frozen food processing plant. Stupid TOC run body issued the lanyards to people doing surveys in 2023.

Manager from a well known firm that does cleaning, dispatch & revenue contracts with the railway but turns out Mr "do you know who I am" manages twenty office cleaners at a nearby council premises.

And an actual train company director with an expired pass from their former employer. Settled internally, that one

Is this just you? Seems like a lot of "action" if so!

 

[Nym]

A staff ID card left on the table would often result in upgrade fees being ‘forgotten about.’

I agree also, that 1st class service improves immeasurably too. I also feel that similar happens it you dress smartly compared to casual in 1st.

I've actually found casual wear and being polite to the staff gets you way more than being dressed smart (although I did both usually when travelling on business to Londonland).

Although the job interview in Glasgow was fun, got a crew on the way back who wanted rid of the wine and food...

 

[Ashley Hill]

On the other hand, one day I finished work early so I could take Mrs H to her hospital appointment. Whilst she was being seen I headed off to the cafe for lunch. I still had my work shirt and tie on plus a lanyard with id card. I was surprised to be given staff discount on my meal.

 

[Iskra]

I've actually found casual wear and being polite to the staff gets you way more than being dressed smart (although I did both usually when travelling on business to Londonland).

Although the job interview in Glasgow was fun, got a crew on the way back who wanted rid of the wine and food...

When dressed casual, I’ve been automatically directed to STD when boarding in 1st, or been treated with hostility until after a thorough inspection of my ticket has occurred. However, I’ve as many if not more positive experiences in First, and I’ve travelled a lot so there are always going to be a small amount of outliers

I agree about being friendly and polite being key.

On the other hand, one day I finished work early so I could take Mrs H to her hospital appointment. Whilst she was being seen I headed off to the cafe for lunch. I still had my work shirt and tie on plus a lanyard with id card. I was surprised to be given staff discount on my meal.

That’s good of them!

I have the opposite problem, I commute by train mostly into a major station and my uniform looks a bit like Transpennine’s, so I get asked for directions and asked about tickets a lot! I am usually happy to help, slightly more knowledgeable than the average traveller and armed with RealTimeTrains.

 

[Nym]

When dressed casual, I’ve been automatically directed to STD when boarding in 1st, or been treated with hostility until after a thorough inspection of my ticket has occurred. However, I’ve as many if not more positive experiences in First, and I’ve travelled a lot so there are always going to be a small amount of outliers

I agree about being friendly and polite being key.


That’s good of them!

I have the opposite problem, I commute by train mostly into a major station and my uniform looks a bit like Transpennine’s, so I get asked for directions and asked about tickets a lot! I am usually happy to help, slightly more knowledgeable than the average traveller and armed with RealTimeTrains.

Yeah, I used to find that acting back with a mirroring level of hostility to those "Guarding" 1st class usually made them back down, not sure that's something that would be acceptable nowerdays, ya know, giving the staff the same hostility they give you?

"Standard Class is that way."
"Yes, that's nice for them."
"You need to go that way."
"Why?"
"That's where Standard Class is."
"And why should I travel in Standard?"

etc etc etc.

Also had a similar issue with being asked questions when working in certain Germanic nations with my colleagues wearing their uniform tops, (and me not), with them not speaking a word of German. (Oh, and it was a Germanic company who's uniform we were wearing!)
Always fun being asked for directions by a native German or Austrian, and needing to respond to them in broken German... Fun(!)

 

[Hadders]

A few years back I was travelling between Inverness and Kyle of Localsh. Guard comes round to check tickets and I showed my ticket which was in my ticket wallet along with my Hatton to Lapworth Annual Gold Card. I'm sure the guard thought it was a staff Gold Status Pass!

 

[tram21]

Honestly, I've had many ticket inspectors simply move on when showing my GTR Key smartcard, where they were otherwise checking E-Tickets and paper tickets. It could well have been that they couldn't be bothered to scan the smartcard!

Same here, I don't think EMR's machines even read smartcards correctly, normally just showing a smartcard is sufficient

 

[Bix]

Childhood memory - My uncle used to work for the old EWS in Doncaster back in the 1990s. At some point, my other uncle somehow ended up with one of those red maroon EWS polo shirts. He’d wear it when travelling for work away as a labourer, and he claimed that when the conductor came by, he’d just nod and say, ‘On my way to work, pal.’ Apparently, they never asked to see his ticket—not even once. Just a nod of the head from the conductor and that was it.


I’m not sure if he’s winding me up, but do you think something like that could’ve actually worked back then.

Rather depends on the rest of his appearance and vibe, I often ask people for tickets and get this feeling they are staff before they show a pass. I will accept uniform as an auto pass if it looks and feels right but just wearing a jumper over a labours presumably rather rough gear would not cut it.