Weather disruption Sunday 17th July and following few days

[175001]

Maybe off topic, but BBC just saying not all trains have air conditioning, accepted that's true but there can't be many left without

Plenty of sprinters without air con in service

 

[dk1]

Maybe off topic, but BBC just saying not all trains have air conditioning, accepted that's true but there can't be many left without

All class 150s, 153s, 155s, 156s & the 158s are hopelessly unreliable.

 

[BJames]

Maybe off topic, but BBC just saying not all trains have air conditioning, accepted that's true but there can't be many left without

I think there may be more than you think (e.g. see post #121) but there are quite a few that are very unreliable!
Edit: beaten to it. But the last 158 I took on a hot day was torture.

 

[43066]

Maybe off topic, but BBC just saying not all trains have air conditioning, accepted that's true but there can't be many left without

SE’s entire metro fleet, bar the 707s lack air con, as do all SWR 455s That’s quite a few trains all told, however there can’t be many left elsewhere?

 

[ainsworth74]

Maybe off topic, but BBC just saying not all trains have air conditioning, accepted that's true but there can't be many left without

Depends where you are. A decent chunk of Northern's fleet is still without aircon. All the 150s, 155s, 156, 319s, 323s and 769s totalling around 170 units out of a fleet of 360 odd. The 158s could probably be included as it's so very hit and miss which takes the total fleet without aircon to around 220 out of 360.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I'm spoilt with Stadlers I guess, I hadn't considered the quantity in northerns fleet

 

[43301]

I think there may be more than you think (e.g. see post #121) but there are quite a few that are very unreliable!
Edit: beaten to it. But the last 158 I took on a hot day was torture.

158s are the worst of all for crap aircon - reliably fails in hot weather, and they only have four hopper windows per vehicle which is totally inadequate on a hot day even if they are moving at speed with few stops.

 

[Nova1]

Class 172s have great air conditioning, even in the highs of summer last year you could get on one and it would be nice and cold even when running suburban services with stops every couple minutes

 

[bramling]

Nights are a good shout. However. I’ll see your nights and raise you not being there at all .



Whereas I never do nights and always wear shorts!

(Although never at work - I’d be in trousers even next week, unless I could do full deck shoes, casual shorts, polo etc, which I gather is strictly prohibited. There are going to be some interesting sights in certain messrooms next week)

On a completely serious note, I will be avoiding train journeys on the hottest days. Frankly I’d advise anyone even contemplating using the railway early next week to give their heads a wobble, follow the official advice and do similar.

I’m in Wales at the moment, where fortunately we look to be avoiding the worst of this (and I can’t help but be glad my hotel room has air conditioning, which is quite a rarity in this country). Currently planning a gentle rural walk on Monday, but a bit wary of doing too much with the car as I’m wary of stressing a 22-year old 200,000 mile car, albeit properly maintained. Won’t be touching the rail system, it’s unreliable enough round here as it is from what I’ve seen over the last two weeks!

 

[Halish Railway]

Grand Central’s reduced service:

North East Timetable
Northbound
London Kings Cross - 08:27, 11:27, 19:27
York 10:25 - 13:23, 21:23
Northallerton - 10:59, 13:49, 21:49
Eaglescliffe - 11:17, 14:04, 22:05
Hartlepool - 11:38, 14:24, 22:24
Sunderland - 12:04, 14:52, 22:52

Southbound
Sunderland - 06:46, 15:30, 17:30
Hartlepool - 07:12, 15:54, 17:56
Eaglescliffe - 07:35 16:15 18:19
Northallerton - 07:55, 16:33, 18:42
York - 08:22, 17:03, 19:12
London Kings Cross - 10:14, 19:08, 21:07

West Riding Timetable
Northbound
London Kings Cross - 10:57, 19:48
Doncaster - 12:35, 21:19
Pontefract Monkhill - 12:58
Westfield Kirkgate - 13:14, 21:51
Mirfield - 22:04Brighouse - 22:12
Halifax - 22:26Low Moor - 22:34
Bradford Interchange 14:01, 22:42

Southbound
Bradford Interchange - 06:55, 14:50
Low Moor - 07:01
Halifax - 07:10
Brighouse - 07:20
Mirfield - 07:26
Wakefield Kirkgate - 07:45, 15:39
Pontefract Monkhill - 07:59, 15:54
Doncaster - 08:31, 16:22
London Kings Cross - 10:08, 18:08

 

[800001]

Grand Central’s reduced service:

North East Timetable
Northbound
London Kings Cross - 08:27, 11:27, 19:27
York 10:25 - 13:23, 21:23
Northallerton - 10:59, 13:49, 21:49
Eaglescliffe - 11:17, 14:04, 22:05
Hartlepool - 11:38, 14:24, 22:24
Sunderland - 12:04, 14:52, 22:52

Southbound
Sunderland - 06:46, 15:30, 17:30
Hartlepool - 07:12, 15:54, 17:56
Eaglescliffe - 07:35 16:15 18:19
Northallerton - 07:55, 16:33, 18:42
York - 08:22, 17:03, 19:12
London Kings Cross - 10:14, 19:08, 21:07

West Riding Timetable
Northbound
London Kings Cross - 10:57, 19:48
Doncaster - 12:35, 21:19
Pontefract Monkhill - 12:58
Westfield Kirkgate - 13:14, 21:51
Mirfield - 22:04Brighouse - 22:12
Halifax - 22:26Low Moor - 22:34
Bradford Interchange 14:01, 22:42

Southbound
Bradford Interchange - 06:55, 14:50
Low Moor - 07:01
Halifax - 07:10
Brighouse - 07:20
Mirfield - 07:26
Wakefield Kirkgate - 07:45, 15:39
Pontefract Monkhill - 07:59, 15:54
Doncaster - 08:31, 16:22
London Kings Cross - 10:08, 18:08

More than a normal timetable

 

[philosopher]

I think there may be more than you think (e.g. see post #121) but there are quite a few that are very unreliable!
Edit: beaten to it. But the last 158 I took on a hot day was torture.

In a way trains with bad air conditioning such as class 158 / 159 are worse than those without. At least trains without air conditions have windows that open

 

[43066]

i’m in Wales at the moment, where fortunately we look to be avoiding the worst of this (and I can’t help but be glad my hotel room has air conditioning, which is quite a rarity in this country). Currently planning a gentle walk on Monday, but a bit wary of doing too much with the car as I’m wary of stressing a 22-year old 200,000 mile car, albeit properly maintained. Won’t be touching the rail system, it’s unreliable enough round here as it is from what I’ve seen over the last two weeks!

Is that the elderly 5 series Beemer? It’ll survive. It’ll probably outlive you .

 

[bramling]

Is that the elderly 5 series Beemer? It’ll survive. It’ll probably outlive you .

Yes, the E39. My newer BM I don’t think is robust enough to be thrashed around on one of my holidays, hence one of a number of reasons for keeping the old one going.

 

[43066]

Yes, the E39. My newer BM I don’t think is robust enough to be thrashed around on one of my holidays, hence one of a number of reasons for keeping the old one going.

Excellent going for the E39. God rest my E46. Choices choices for the next one…

I have a 15 mile yomp along the South Downs nominally planned for Monday with my dad and uncle, both mid/late 60s. I’ve been trying to put them off due the heat, seems they’re both still up for it… Puts me to shame really.

If any thrashing takes place over the next few days, it’ll be me over the South Downs….

 

[All Line Rover]

LNR service proposals:
Monday/Tuesday and perhaps Wednesday too....

45/90 blanket speed over the WCML

...
No Trent Valley services <--- ???
...

Wtf? They'd damn better arrange mutual ticket acceptance with Avanti. It's a Monday morning, I need to get to work. 23 deg at 8am on Monday.

 

[startingaparty]

Please can someone explain the physics of WHY the hot weather would cause issues to railway infrastructure? Furthermore, what are the efforts continental Europe are taking in response to the extreme temperatures?

 

[bramling]

Excellent going for the E39. God rest my E46. Choices choices for the next one…

I have a 15 mile yomp along the South Downs nominally planned for Monday with my dad and uncle, both mid/late 60s. I’ve been trying to put them off due the heat, seems they’re both still up for it… Puts me to shame really.

If any thrashing takes place over the next few days, it’ll be me over the South Downs….

That’s fairly lightweight compared to passing over the Rhondda Tunnel, Llynfi to Rhondda valleys, which mine had to do earlier this week, indeed three other valleys crossed in the same day which was tough going.

Please can someone explain the physics of WHY the hot weather would cause issues to railway infrastructure? Furthermore, what are the efforts continental Europe are taking in response to the extreme temperatures?

Mainly due to metal expanding, which creates issues in a number of settings - track and OLE. Add to that rolling stock issues, especially on diesel trains.

Being a little cynical, one could also likely predict some resource coverage issues in places, especially over the weekend.

 

[800001]

Wtf? They'd damn better arrange mutual ticket acceptance with Avanti. It's a Monday morning, I need to get to work. 23 deg at 8am on Monday.

How you getting home when all the wires have sagged, OHL down, trains stranded and points and track buckled and broke?

There is a reason they are advising against travel.

If the network falls apart they will have no replacement transport to get you home.

The message is against travel.

Please can someone explain the physics of WHY the hot weather would cause issues to railway infrastructure? Furthermore, what are the efforts continental Europe are taking in response to the extreme temperatures?

Overhead wires will sag and potentially collapse.

Tracks will expand, they will buckle…….need we go on?

 

[Andyh82]

for info the 45/90 blanket speed restriction is a National control instruction for any weather areas that have a forecast of 36C or above.

As I mentioned elsewhere (possibly on this thread), when air temperatures get to 39C we are then in the territory of buckling risk to good condition plain line track that has been properly stressed. The 36C limit for the speed restriction gives a margin for local temperature variation and also for variation in the actual rail Stress Free Temperature (which although recorded as 27C will vary naturally by a degree or so due to local conditions on installation)

What exactly does ‘45/90’ mean?

 

[800001]

What exactly does ‘45/90’ mean?

45mph or 90mph

 

[Class 466]

45mph or 90mph

90 seems pretty fast as restrictions go

 

[800001]

90 seems pretty fast as restrictions go

Depends on Time, temperature, location in country

 

[Class 466]

Depends on Time, temperature, location in country

That’s fair enough, I’m just used to a few years ago when the blanket speed was just 50 across the board where I live regardless

 

[Bald Rick]

Please can someone explain the physics of WHY the hot weather would cause issues to railway infrastructure? Furthermore, what are the efforts continental Europe are taking in response to the extreme temperatures?

see upthread. Laws of physics.

Europe will be doing much the same. But they tend not to publish stuff about their plans in the British media.

What exactly does ‘45/90’ mean?

90 mph for passenger trains, or trains that have passenger characteristics (bogied vehicles, decent braking)

45mph for everything else.

 

[yorkie]

How you getting home when all the wires have sagged, OHL down, trains stranded and points and track buckled and broke?

There is a reason they are advising against travel.

If the network falls apart they will have no replacement transport to get you home.

I don't see how any of this is a good reason to refuse to put ticket acceptance measures into place?

The message is against travel.

But, as things stand, people can travel. If on the day there are no trains at all then that's that, but if WMT are not running via the Trent Valley and Avanti are, then acceptance has to be put in place.

 

[800001]

I don't see how any of this is a good reason to refuse to put ticket acceptance measures into place?

But, as things stand, people can travel. If on the day there are no trains at all then that's that, but if WMT are not running via the Trent Valley and Avanti are, then acceptance has to be put in place.

Mutually acceptance will be in place.

But if the network falls apart and no trains run let’s say Crewe to Preston, extremely unlikely that replacement services will run.

Like I say the message is advise against travel.

We all know from storm Arwen people ignore the do not travel , then kick off when they are stranded for several hours.

 

[Bald Rick]

That’s fair enough, I’m just used to a few years ago when the blanket speed was just 50 across the board where I live regardless

not for weather like this.

 

[yorkie]

Mutually acceptance will be in place.

It sounded like your response was somehow suggesting it wouldn't be! I'm not sure why the journey home was raised by you though; the weather should be a lot cooler by the end of the week.

 

[800001]

It sounded like your response was somehow suggesting it wouldn't be! I'm not sure why the journey home was raised by you though; the weather should be a lot cooler by the end of the week.

I was presuming the person going to work at 8am Monday morning was returning home the same day!
When temperature are at the hottest, where failures of track or overheads are at the most critical.

When I mention replacement transport I was on about buses.

Ticket acceptance with other companies is well
And good, but useless if the network is blocked.