Weather disruption Sunday 17th July and following few days

[800001]

Looking at a old rail forum from a few years ago, Spain (and others) reduced the speed of trains during the hot weather, and cancelled trains due to the lower speeds. I also see that currently there are SEVERE WEATHER WARNINGS in force for Spain and Portugal issued by their Met Offices/Governments.


Whilst a blanket of 60mph (its 30/60) will help the track, by reducing impact etc, and I guess this will cover the 'red zone' area, and a little bit surrounding it, freight will be 30mph, so I am not sure how they will be able to run any freight at all ?

what could muck it all up are points and switches, a bit of heat, well a lot of heat, any slight over the norm expansion of the metal locking, will see points failures here there and everywhere.........luckily the proposed 2500 maintainance job cuts hasn't taken place yet !

Shush. This never happens on foreign countries

I'm on the 1130 on LNER from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. It's the last leg of a 2.5 week holiday and a week that I've spent on trains through France from Barcelona back to Scotland.

LNER are saying essential travel only, there will be less trains and the journey might take longer. What should I do? Stick with it or try and get my money back and travel another way?

Make your own choice.

Ultimately it is up to you.

Want to be on train that takes 8 hours or longer? Air con struggling to maintain a cool temp as it’s working harder than it’s design limit.

You need to decide yourself what you want to do without someone telling you.

 

[Andyh82]

Sadly I’m having to travel on Monday as it’s the start of a UK holiday that I’ve booked, and I’d be unable to rearrange the hotel and the return train travel in a weeks time without substantial extra cost

I’m just hoping as I’m travelling in the morning and in the northern half of the country it might not be too bad

 

[greyman42]

LNER are saying essential travel only, there will be less trains and the journey might take longer.

So they might not?

 

[800001]

So they might not?

If you are doing Newcastle to Edinburgh journey will
Most likely take same length of time. However train will be severely delayed as it will be running at severely reduced speed between Kings Cross and York or Newcastle.

So yes, what they have wrote is correct.

 

[greyman42]

If you are doing Newcastle to Edinburgh journey will
Most likely take same length of time. However train will be severely delayed as it will be running at severely reduced speed between Kings Cross and York or Newcastle.

So yes, what they have wrote is correct.

Thanks. I was going from York to London on Tuesday but i am having second thoughts now.

 

[800001]

Thanks. I was going from York to London on Tuesday but i am having second thoughts now.

Personally I wouldn’t be doing it.
Don’t know how long journey will take, talk of 45mph between 1200-2000 and lower over critical point work.

Trains could be packed, struggling air con.

I’d stay at home with a nice chilled beer

 

[NorthWestRover]

Sadly I’m having to travel on Monday as it’s the start of a UK holiday that I’ve booked, and I’d be unable to rearrange the hotel and the return train travel in a weeks time without substantial extra cost

I’m just hoping as I’m travelling in the morning and in the northern half of the country it might not be too bad

Similar. A very special holiday. Gonna just have to the risk.

 

[Towers]

There's also the mechanical toll on the rolling stock to be considered. Hopefully depots have been frantically ensuring that exposed radiators are in good health during servicing this week, and no doubt there'll be plenty of spare coolant ready for use! In summers gone by even some of the 80x fleets have been known to struggle in the heat, with engines on the bi-modes dropping out (as in stopping, not literally falling off!) when it gets very warm. Presumably we can expect a fair bit of diesel under the wires if the OHLE starts struggling.

 

[LAX54]

This looks like the GA set up for Mon/Tues:
Rurals to run as booked.
Shuttles on Braintree/Harwich/Southminster/Clacton (resulting in reduced GEML services).
Reduced post-COVID service plan in place with additional Hertford East / Stratford reductions

Freight to operate outside the hours of 1200-2000

 

[800001]

There's also the mechanical toll on the rolling stock to be considered. Hopefully depots have been frantically ensuring that exposed radiators are in good health during servicing this week, and no doubt there'll be plenty of spare coolant ready for use! In summers gone by even some of the 80x fleets have been known to struggle in the heat, with engines on the bi-modes dropping out (as in stopping, not literally falling off!) when it gets very warm. Presumably we can expect a fair bit of diesel under the wires if the OHLE starts struggling.

They only have 10 x 9 car bimodes in use each day, 6 of this won Aberdeen and Inverness services.

But much diesel running if OHL fails.
And if OHL fails, that’s normally line blocked, so being diesel won’t help unless a diversion and crew available

 

[Snow1964]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

 

[philosopher]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

Scotrail and perhaps Merseyrail I would have thought should be able to operate normally on Monday and Tuesday

 

[stuu]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

No justification? 34°C is still way above average temperatures. Where I live in Somerset the forecast is 35, which is 3°C higher than the highest previously recorded temperature. This is way in excess of what the rails are stressed to cope with

 

[800001]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

And you are an expert on how track and Over head wires react in excess heat?

 

[30mog]

May I ask. The predicted temperatures are probably far more commonly something that Spanish railways, for example, deal with. Does anyone have experience of a rail operator in another country warning passengers of possible disruption from tracks buckling in heat?

Be aware I’ll accuse NO ONE of being too careful.

 

[LAX54]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

Railway is fine up to the normal UK temp. plus a degree or 2, so up to about 28c, anything above that, may or will give rise to issues, unless measures are taken to reduce the effects.

May I ask. The predicted temperatures are probably far more commonly something that Spanish railways deal with, do they therefore warn passengers of possible disruption from tracks buckling in heat more often?

Be aware I’ll accuse NO ONE of being too careful.

Think Spain/Portugal are having issues, but of course they are used to 30c in the summer, but NOT -3 to -5 in the winter !

 

[YorkshireBear]

May I ask. The predicted temperatures are probably far more commonly something that Spanish railways deal with, do they therefore warn passengers of possible disruption from tracks buckling in heat more often?

Be aware I’ll accuse NO ONE of being too careful.

I believe there infrastructure is set up to higher temperatures. Things like rail stress etc. All linked to average climates.

 

[Man_with_beard]

The weather models have been updated, now looking like around 34c -35c max Monday with some local areas perhaps 36c or maybe 37c

Tuesday is hottest with 38c to 40c in some areas. But not expected to exceed 34c further west and lower still north of Yorkshire.

Going to make it rather difficult for the long distance operators who have no justification to cut services west of about Swindon, or north of York etc

BBC weather app is showing 41C for Sheffield

 

[30mog]

I believe there infrastructure is set up to higher temperatures. Things like rail stress etc. All linked to average climates.

I suspected something like TBH. So given HS2 is under construction and whether you agree with it or not you hear a lot about global warming should our rail engineers consider thinking on a different climate model to now.

 

[Snow1964]

Railway is fine up to the normal UK temp. plus a degree or 2, so up to about 28c, anything above that, may or will give rise to issues, unless measures are taken to reduce the effects.

And you are an expert on how track and Over head wires react in excess heat?

Thats my point, there is currently nowhere in UK that is expected to be 28c + 2c before midday on Monday, so what is with the cutting services on Monday morning. It feels like the restrictions are half a day too early.

What I am not getting is a sensible answer to why trains that complete their journey by mid morning Monday, and are local are being included in restrictions before the heat builds.

From the time the heat builds, the restrictions are obvious (and already discussed), but no one is explaining restrictions many hours before heat builds.

 

[wagnaga]

Thats my point, there is currently nowhere in UK that is expected to be 28c + 2c before midday on Monday, so what is with the cutting services on Monday morning. It feels like the restrictions are half a day too early.

What I am not getting is a sensible answer to why trains that complete their journey by mid morning Monday, and are local are being included in restrictions before the heat builds.

Is imposing restrictions earlier on Monday about discouraging outbound journeys because there will be severe restrictions on the return journeys? It's one thing getting to work but what about getting back?

 

[Snow1964]

Is imposing restrictions earlier on Monday about discouraging outbound journeys because there will be severe restrictions on the return journeys? It's one thing getting to work but what about getting back?

Yes, logical for day trips, but we have already had people on this forum discussing single journeys on Monday morning at start or end of holidays (including those trying to get home before the heat) that now seem to be being penalised by cutting services many hours before heat builds.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Thats my point, there is currently nowhere in UK that is expected to be 28c + 2c before midday on Monday, so what is with the cutting services on Monday morning. It feels like the restrictions are half a day too early.

What I am not getting is a sensible answer to why trains that complete their journey by mid morning Monday, and are local are being included in restrictions before the heat builds.

From the time the heat builds, the restrictions are obvious (and already discussed), but no one is explaining restrictions many hours before heat builds.

Possibly unit and crew balancing?

 

[LAX54]

Thats my point, there is currently nowhere in UK that is expected to be 28c + 2c before midday on Monday, so what is with the cutting services on Monday morning. It feels like the restrictions are half a day too early.

What I am not getting is a sensible answer to why trains that complete their journey by mid morning Monday, and are local are being included in restrictions before the heat builds.

From the time the heat builds, the restrictions are obvious (and already discussed), but no one is explaining restrictions many hours before heat builds.

East Anglia 33c by 12:00, then if you plan to cut services, you need stock and crew in the right place, if you start the day with a normal service, the diagrams for crew and units will end in chaos, and more cancellations than needed !
If you 'plan' and Emergency timetable, it makes sense to do it from the 1st train of the day. If an incident happens mid way through the day, you have no choice, but as everyone knows, it never works that well !

 

[Llanigraham]

May I ask. The predicted temperatures are probably far more commonly something that Spanish railways, for example, deal with. Does anyone have experience of a rail operator in another country warning passengers of possible disruption from tracks buckling in heat?

Be aware I’ll accuse NO ONE of being too careful.

As has already been said, train operators in both Spain and Portugal are reporting temperature related disruption.

 

[The Middle]

Shush. This never happens on foreign countries


Make your own choice.

Ultimately it is up to you.

Want to be on train that takes 8 hours or longer? Air con struggling to maintain a cool temp as it’s working harder than it’s design limit.

You need to decide yourself what you want to do without someone telling you.

This 100%.

Don't know why people feel the need to be constantly instructed, take some personal responsibility and take a decision for yourself but don't be surprised when when your journey is massively disrupted or you are stranded somewhere.

 

[philthetube]

Excellent going for the E39. God rest my E46. Choices choices for the next one…

I have a 15 mile yomp along the South Downs nominally planned for Monday with my dad and uncle, both mid/late 60s. I’ve been trying to put them off due the heat, seems they’re both still up for it… Puts me to shame really.

If any thrashing takes place over the next few days, it’ll be me over the South Downs….

nope, shows only one of you has any sense

Thats my point, there is currently nowhere in UK that is expected to be 28c + 2c before midday on Monday, so what is with the cutting services on Monday morning. It feels like the restrictions are half a day too early.

What I am not getting is a sensible answer to why trains that complete their journey by mid morning Monday, and are local are being included in restrictions before the heat builds.

From the time the heat builds, the restrictions are obvious (and already discussed), but no one is explaining restrictions many hours before heat builds.

oh dear, the temp has now reached a critical level, use the magic dust to get rid of half the trains, it is just not practical to do in most cases.

 

[43096]

Lots. All of the Sprinters (except the 158/159s but their A/C is so unreliable they may as well not have it). All 376s, 455s, 456s, 465s and 466s. All 313s, 318s, 320s, 321s and 323s.

Renatus 321s have aircon.

 

[LAX54]

As has already been said, train operators in both Spain and Portugal are reporting temperature related disruption.

Shhh ! Its only EVER the UK that has such issues like heat, snow and leaves !

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Similar. A very special holiday. Gonna just have to the risk.

I have a holiday trip to the UK in late August hopefully things will be more normal by then (if there is such a concept as normal with UK weather)