Weather resilience

[pdeaves]

Here is a new thread about weather resilience in response to the Stonehaven derailment thread.

brad465 wrote:

If rainfall is hard and sudden enough it could be enough to cause a landslide on an otherwise stable bank. Whether the technology for detection exists or not, I would not be surprised if a subsequent investigation recommends reinforcement of every bank/cutting above a certain gradient and/or height.

Network Rail is effectively doing that anyway now around the country. Obviously, there are many constraints limiting how quickly it can be done. Also, certain places might have land ownership issues (do you want to say goodbye to your back garden for the sake of a 'just in case' land alteration, for example). Whether it would have made any difference at Stonehaven, I don't know.

 

[John S2]

A warmer atmosphere holds more moisture, so heavy rainfall events are increasing in severity - ie if a particular weather pattern occurs now that is similar to one that occurred several decades ago then there is the potential for greater rainfall than previously. I am sure that Network Rail is aware of this.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Increases the argument for HS2 etc. Build new lines to modern standards rather than Victorian standards. Or when a line is modernized, electrified do resilience work at the same time. Net zero carbon will also help weather patterns one would assume.

 

[SargeNpton]

Increases the argument for HS2 etc. Build new lines to modern standards rather than Victorian standards. Or when a line is modernized, electrified do resilience work at the same time. Net zero carbon will also help weather patterns one would assume.

Of course, past "maintenance holidays" wouldn't have helped. Nor perhaps the changes in practices with regards to lineside vegetation clearance.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It's very hard to get on top of as it is so random and unpredictable that's the issue. These storms create new problems, they don't neccesariy just flood your existing sites.

 

[E100]

Around embankments and cuttings. Strain (measuring the change in relative length) sensors could be installed at key points and linked to signaling relatively easily to spot earthworks failure. This would no doubt though be costly and time consuming, alongside introducing another potential failure point / maintenance requirement in signalling. The safety implications of requiring extensive rope access would also not be able to be overlooked.

Part of the issue is though that the actual act of the train passing can often be the trigger. The vibrations and loading can quite radically alter the forces acting upon the earthworks meaning that even with good sensors linked to signalling this would not be fail safe by any means.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Of course, past "maintenance holidays" wouldn't have helped. Nor perhaps the changes in practices with regards to lineside vegetation clearance.

Almost worth a separate thread. Lineside vegetation is I would have thought a double edged sword. Trees that have grown - surely their roots systems binds the soil etc together. But with less trees less chance of branches etc falling on the tracks. I am not a geo-engineer so not sure I can comment much more on that.

 

[Horizon22]

Almost worth a separate thread. Lineside vegetation is I would have thought a double edged sword. Trees that have grown - surely their roots systems binds the soil etc together. But with less trees less chance of branches etc falling on the tracks. I am not a geo-engineer so not sure I can comment much more on that.

It is actually the complete opposite to this and is why trees are removed alongside cuttings. It was once explained to me, but unfortunately I forget the geotechnical reason.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It is actually the complete opposite to this and is why trees are removed alongside cuttings. It was once explained to me, but unfortunately I forget the geotechnical reason.

Did some MP beeattchh about trees being pruned because of birds nests?

 

[swt_passenger]

Did some MP beeattchh about trees being pruned because of birds nests?

It’s usually the local public who scream loudest about tree removal, they’ve become used to the linear woodland. There’s a lot of education needed.

 

[swt_passenger]

Around embankments and cuttings. Strain (measuring the change in relative length) sensors could be installed at key points and linked to signaling relatively easily to spot earthworks failure. This would no doubt though be costly and time consuming, alongside introducing another potential failure point / maintenance requirement in signalling. The safety implications of requiring extensive rope access would also not be able to be overlooked.

Part of the issue is though that the actual act of the train passing can often be the trigger. The vibrations and loading can quite radically alter the forces acting upon the earthworks meaning that even with good sensors linked to signalling this would not be fail safe by any means.

They do have slope monitoring in risky cuttings - I expect the difficulty is deciding in advance where the risk is. I’ll see if I can find the last relevant thread...

So here we are:

solar panels on sticks - between Applerley Junction and Guiseley

I got the train from Ilkley into Leeds and return yesterday Coming back I sat on the left facing the front We came off the skipton line onto the branch to Ilkley Just after the junction, on the left, there were some solar panels on what looked like temporary stands, and some yellow sticks on...

www.railforums.co.uk

...my post #6 over there links to a manufacturers website.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Trees lead to changes in water demand in the soil with the shrink and swell (particularly in clays) causes failures. Very basic explanation.

It's fine if the slope is designed for them but victorian railway slopes are not. Hence why motorway cuttings are far far shallower.

 

[brad465]

I live fairly close to the railway cutting between Maidstone East and Bearstead, where plans are in place to chainsaw down all the undergrowth on a slope next to the tunnel mouth that has been detected to have moved. They were meant to do it in early July, but high winds led to a delay, where the instability was caused by both the wet winter and very dry spring.