Before anyone suggests that it will lead to more spilled coffee, it's no longer served in open cups on a saucer; therefore unless it will tip the cups over its unlikely to be a problem.
Still have proper open cups in 1st class
Before anyone suggests that it will lead to more spilled coffee, it's no longer served in open cups on a saucer; therefore unless it will tip the cups over its unlikely to be a problem.
Still have proper open cups in 1st class
I’m beginning to hope Virgin can pull off a second challenge and get a re run, given by all accounts the current proposals commit to spending a fortune on new trains & infrastructure upgrades only to deliver slower journeys at inferior ride quality. merely satisfying DFT’s seats per hour computer model .If intermediate stretches are allowed 125 we will end up with a saw-tooth speed profile rather than the current rather smooth one.
If improvements need infrastructure changes, it will take time and money in?
I’m beginning to hope Virgin can pull off a second challenge and get a re run, given by all accounts the current proposals commit to spending a fortune on new trains & infrastructure upgrades only to deliver slower journeys at inferior ride quality. merely satisfying DFT’s seats per hour computer model .
Not for sure, I was going by their previous proposals of a fleet of shorter Pendolinos to eliminate Voyager operation under the wires aside from the Chester/ north wales services, on which capacity isn’t a overwhelming problem and properly refurbished Voyagers could manage until HS2 opens, around which time a decision on the best available replacement could be made .Do you know that Virgin proposed anything different, though?
.
Not for sure, I was going by their previous proposals of a fleet of shorter Pendolinos to eliminate Voyager operation under the wires aside from the Chester/ north wales services, on which capacity isn’t a overwhelming problem and properly refurbished Voyagers could manage until HS2 opens, around which time a decision on the best available replacement could be made .
With HS2 for the "classic compatible" trains it will be interesting to see if they are going to be built with tilt function as after phase one is complete other than services to London they would effectively be slower than existing stock for journeys on existing track.
Can you recall where/when this was officially announced? It seems to have passed me by.I think it has been officially announced that there will not be tilting trains for HS2 due to weight and cost issues.
Can you recall where/when this was officially announced? It seems to have passed me by.
Can you recall where/when this was officially announced? It seems to have passed me by.
From:On this basis we propose to continue with the current train specification rather than seek to specify a tilting train design, using minor modifications to the WCML to minimise impacts on journey times north of Lichfield.
I think it has been officially announced that there will not be tilting trains for HS2 due to weight and cost issues.
Id think your right , the whole environmentalist and recently increasing anti diesel campaigns now appear very big business compared with 2001 when voyagers entered serviceCould the inclusion of Bi-modes be a move to reduce the emissions in the stations where they well and truly breached legal limits? Rather than refurbishing the Voyagers?
There will always be a number of locations on the WCML where 125mph non-tilt will not be feasible - Berkhamsted, Linslade, Wolverton, Weedon, Rugby, Atherstone, Lichfield, Rugeley, Norton Bridge, Whitmore and so on.
If intermediate stretches are allowed 125 we will end up with a saw-tooth speed profile rather than the current rather smooth one.
If improvements need infrastructure changes, it will take time and money.
What happens about TASS (ie ATP)? That's what allows 390s to exceed 110mph as well as tilt.
The HS2 programme might fund changes north of Crewe/Wigan, but not south of there.
We need to know what upgrades the franchise will fund, otherwise who pays?
Or is that where the "Partnership" bit kicks in?
Thanks. I had my wires crossed and was thinking of the Voyager replacements. As I read it, that document is discussing Classic-Compatible trains for HS2, which the DfT assume will not tilt.From:On this basis we propose to continue with the current train specification rather than seek to specify a tilting train design, using minor modifications to the WCML to minimise impacts on journey times north of Lichfield.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...083/hs2-review-of_technical-specification.pdf
Id think your right , the whole environmentalist and recently increasing anti diesel campaigns now appear very big business compared with 2001 when voyagers entered service
Figures seem to suggest each engine burns just under 1 litre per mileHow much do VT actually waste on fuel for under wired sections Vs using the electricity already supplied along the overheads?
How much do VT actually waste on fuel for under wired sections Vs using the electricity already supplied along the overheads?
All sounds rather baffling. IF it is that the new operator is to put money into infrastructure to get some 110mph sections up to 125mph non tilt, would it not just make more sense for more money be paid out for new tilting trains which don't require alterations to infrastructure?
Then again, maybe the first option is more about future proofing for after HS2 is running? I.e. a future for the classic WCML with no committment needed for future tilt due to sectiins being improved to 125?
A UK gauge tilting train will always be a bespoke product, so in the long run it might make financial sense to do the upgrades rather than fund the development of the trains. North of Wigan the future is non-tilting anyway with HS2, so ultimately everyone travelling on the line will benefit from non tilt speed increases.
I thought quite a lot of people went to Glasgow on the train, but I guess your right that the stations they call at are important. The Glasgow service via Trent Valley doesn't need to stop at Crewe though because the Glasgow via Birmingham service goes direct from Crewe.Oxenholme is a major tourist destination including for people from London. Unless you were to change the branch service to run to/from Lancaster bays (which would also work) all London services need to stop there.
TBH, in my view all trains should stop at all stations (except Euxton and Leyland) between Crewe and Carlisle. Consistency of the Takt is to me more important than 5-10 minutes off for the relatively few people actually going to Glasgow.
I meant Poulton not LancasterHow is a Blackpool service going to stop at Lancaster?
I meant PoultonYou might want to check the location of Lancaster on a map. And in the light of what you discover, you might want to review your recommendation that I've bolded!
I don't think Oxenholme and Penrith people would be particularly happy at your suggestion that they see fewer services and also have to change to get to London. In my experience, Oxenholme in particular sees quite a bit of traffic to London - including people from Windermere who already have to change once at Oxenholme - you'll be making them change twice.
Tbh government should be paying. This new Partnership arrangement eschews a traditional franchise premium profile in favour of something more akin to revenue sharing with First currently forecasting they will be making an average profit of £50m per year both before and after the management contract kicks in while the government will be taking around £250m per year in premiums, new rolling stock aside the franchise has only pledged £32m on stations and infrastructure (which will be spread pretty thin as they are promising a couple of new first class lounges, expanding waiting room capacity at most stations and 900 more car parking spaces) and £117m (£2m per Set) on Pendolino refurbishment including replacing all seats with the Voyager replacements providing around 10% more services per year by the middle of the pre-hs2 section.
Governments going to be raking the money in and doesn't seem to be allowing much of it to flow back. (at the moment the franchise has a margin of 5.2 to 5.7% and that will be reducing to 3-5%. It makes a profit of £60m per year at moment and that falls slightly to £50m, interestingly Stagecoach forecast same profit margin as First-Trenitalia 90% revenue share going to Dft under direct award extension today and 80% if they won the West Coast Partnership franchise according to Stagecoaches 2018 financial results)