West Coast Railways Suspended (now reinstated)

[Elecman]

It wasn't the AWS it was the TPWS, read the report
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And the company employing the driver has the responsibility to ensure they are competent to carry out their duties including training, notices, booking on procedures, fit for duty, monitoring fit for duty, ensuring the driver maintains route knowledge, supplying training for new systems and route amendments this list is just the tip of the iceberg

I was referring to there being someone else on the footplate, pointing out that the driver has ultimate responsibility for operation of the locomotive and train not anyone else on the footplate.

 

[Pigeon]

The train pipe is connected to a device on each cylinder called a DA (Direct Admission) Valve, which detects the increase in pressure and admits a proportional amount of air from outside - not the train pipe - to the brake cylinder.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was in particular this bit that had escaped my awareness - probably due to remembering descriptions of vacuum brakes that pre-date its introduction

 

[Masbroughlad]

If they go to the wall, could their locos and stock be sold to another operator who can pass H and S requirements?

Would be a shame to lose all of those resources.

Who could buy them? Who would buy them?

It would be good to see a real business focused, entrepreneurial, enthusiastic buyer. ..... Waterman Railways reborn or the like!

 

[87019Chris]

Could someone simply hire WCRC loco's and then re-employ staff but as a different company then WCRC would sell (hand over) all the charter contracts to said company and the company run as non profit and the cost of leasing loco's would be the profit of running the carters. This meaning WCRC still make money and Loco's are used on the charters and Getting Round WCRC not being able to run trains?

 

[Tracky]

If WCR were to lose their licence they could still promote Railtours with their own air braked locos and stock and DB/DRS taking over the operation. In the short to medium term vacuum braked equipment could also earn (admittedly lower) revenue on heritage railways.


In other news

There was a statement which has since disappeared regarding the Great Britain tour (Promofed by The Railway Touring Co.) suggesting West Coast were hoping to speed up a resolution from network rail following good progress.

It went on to suggest that if west coast could not operate the tour DB had agreed to cover some sections around London and the South West with steam traction and DRS would diesel haul the rest.

 

[D1009]

There was a statement which has since disappeared regarding the Great Britain tour (Promofed by The Railway Touring Co.) suggesting West Coast were hoping to speed up a resolution from network rail following good progress.

It went on to suggest that if west coast could not operate the tour DB had agreed to cover some sections around London and the South West with steam traction and DRS would diesel haul the rest.

Surely the involvement of more companies would have increased the costs to the tour company.

 

[CosherB]

Could someone simply hire WCRC loco's and then re-employ staff but as a different company then WCRC would sell (hand over) all the charter contracts to said company and the company run as non profit and the cost of leasing loco's would be the profit of running the carters. This meaning WCRC still make money and Loco's are used on the charters and Getting Round WCRC not being able to run trains?

I think the likes of the ORR and NR would have an opinion on such a scheme!

Any idea who would, out of the goodness of their hearts, suddenly step in and run at not-for-profit such an idea? I didn't think so too ....

 

[Jonfun]

By the time this theoretical other company had gained it's operating licence and other required credentials it would be quicker to just fix the problems with WCRC. Unless you're talking someone who already has running rights, and then in effect they're just being bought out by a competitor?

 

[Tracky]

Surely the involvement of more companies would have increased the costs to the tour company.

Cancelling a multiday tour and getting stung for hotel bills bankrupted a company called Days Out Ltd in the 90s. It may be less costly to run with DRS and DB than it would be to refund a couple of hundred passengers and still have to cover other costs.

Also WCR may be accepting some responsibility.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely the involvement of more companies would have increased the costs to the tour company.

EDIT - AS Tracky above stated first: In depends upon the various contractual arrangements and indemnities offered by each party.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Most of the above speculation misses the point. The bulk of WCR's business was tamper conducting, and other non - timetabled moves. I can't see any charter train only operation being viable.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

To quote Captain Mainwaring, this is entering the realms of fantasy...

 

[DarloRich]

To quote Captain Mainwaring, this is entering the realms of fantasy...

what are you talking about?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

what are you talking about?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2140371#post2140371

 

[DarloRich]

sorry still confused.........................

 

[Tracky]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2140371#post2140371

To be honest I just ignored that post as it misses the point of the immediate effect.

Whatever the outcome, hopefully charter train operation can bounce back in a better regulated and organised guise. I've been of the opinion for some years that it was only a matter of time before WCR practices were questioned and I know I'm not the only one.

DB steam ops also come into question outside of their South London and Bristol core areas. DRS route competency may also be questioned along with the ad hoc freight operations of the likes of colas - though at least they stick to limited core routes.

 

[CosherB]

To be honest I just ignored that post as it misses the point of the immediate effect.

Whatever the outcome, hopefully charter train operation can bounce back in a better regulated and organised guise. I've been of the opinion for some years that it was only a matter of time before WCR practices were questioned and I know I'm not the only one.

DB steam ops also come into question outside of their South London and Bristol core areas. DRS route competency may also be questioned along with the ad hoc freight operations of the likes of colas - though at least they stick to limited core routes.

Do you have allegations you can substantiate?

 

[38Cto15E]

Any idea if the Jacobite will be running this summer?

 

[D1009]

Any idea if the Jacobite will be running this summer?

Pretty certain no-one knows answer to that question yet.

 

[Tracky]

Do you have allegations you can substantiate?

I didn't and wouldn't make any alegations.

I did pass comment/opinion. To be clear, any company which operates trains on an and hoc basis including routes not normally covered will have to be sure that the records for driver competancy are up to scratch. For DB where steam is now an infrequent choice of traction outside core areas of London & SE and Bristol resourcing staff with the correct competancy must be a nightmare.

 

[SPADTrap]

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/orr-considers-revoking-wcr-safety-certificate

 

[edwin_m]

I didn't and wouldn't make any alegations.

I did pass comment/opinion. To be clear, any company which operates trains on an and hoc basis including routes not normally covered will have to be sure that the records for driver competancy are up to scratch. For DB where steam is now an infrequent choice of traction outside core areas of London & SE and Bristol resourcing staff with the correct competancy must be a nightmare.

Aren't the DBS steam drivers full-time members of their staff who spend most of their time driving diesel on freights over the same set of routes?

I imagine maintaining route knowledge therefore wouldn't be a big issue for DBS drivers, and DBS will have processes in place to manage it. However to increase their steam operations DBS would have to decide whether it was worth either training drivers from other areas in steam train handling, or getting their existing steam-qualified drivers to sign more routes. Either has a cost, that would need to be balanced against the extra revenue it might bring in.

 

[CallySleeper]

Think this is old news now but here it is

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/orr-considers-revoking-wcr-safety-certificate

ORR CONSIDERS REVOKING WCR SAFETY CERTIFICATE

The Office of Rail and Road (previously the Office of Rail Regulation) has confirmed to Railway Herald that it has commenced the start of a process to consider revoking the safety certificate of the West Coast Railway Company (WCRC) following significant concerns over safety.

The ORR has written to industry stakeholders to advise of its concerns and that it has "triggers its formal procedures to consider revocation of the West Coast Railway Company (WCRC) Safety Certificate" as of 17th April. As with the granting of a license, the revocation procedure involves a 28-day consultation process with the industry, before a final decision is made.

Network Rail has confirmed that WCRC has submitted paperwork in relation to the Suspension Notice served on 2nd April, and that the submission is now being reviewed and assessed. Given that the ORR has publically stated its concern over safety at WCRC, there remains the possibility that in the event of Network Rail lifting its suspension notice, the ORR could take steps to prevent the company from resuming operations pending the outcome of the industry consultation.

Any further information is unlikely to come before late May, once the 28-day consultation has concluded, and a decision is reached by the ORR.

 

[SPADTrap]

Think this is old news now but here it is

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/orr-considers-revoking-wcr-safety-certificate

ORR CONSIDERS REVOKING WCR SAFETY CERTIFICATE

Thanks, forgot to quote it!

 

[CosherB]

Thanks, forgot to quote it!

the slippery slope looks to be getting even more slippy for WCRC. there is now a process underway that could (i stress could) remove WCRC from railway operations. the fact that 'stakeholders' have been notified by the ORR means that this is no longer solely down to NR. i can only infer that the ORR is finding the remediation process unacceptable and is making contingencies to either extend the ban or make it permanent if further progress to resolve the catalogue of issues, to the satisfaction of the regulator, is not made. fascinating and very concerning ....

 

[RichmondCommu]

An old school friend of mine visited the Midland Railway Centre during the Easter holidays to see the Stanier Pacifics and was told that all steam is currently banned from the network because of whats happened with WCR. I'm assuming that isn't actually the case?

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not been announced anywhere as being the case. I believe WCRC are (or were) responsible for a lot of steam operations on the mainline but DBS haven't been brought into question and they run a fair few themselves. Also the issue isn't with steam but with WCRC management so it would seem illogical to ban steam.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It absolutely isn't the case. The Great Britain VIII tour will still be steam hauled for part of the itinerary if DBS operate it, which is looking increasingly likely.

 

[martynbristow]

Any idea if the Jacobite will be running this summer?

Potentially Scot-rail could absorb the operation as they had planned to use WCR on a the borderlines route too. If they can make i happen is another matter :/

 

[RichmondCommu]

It absolutely isn't the case. The Great Britain VIII tour will still be steam hauled for part of the itinerary if DBS operate it, which is looking increasingly likely.

It's not been announced anywhere as being the case. I believe WCRC are (or were) responsible for a lot of steam operations on the mainline but DBS haven't been brought into question and they run a fair few themselves. Also the issue isn't with steam but with WCRC management so it would seem illogical to ban steam.

Thanks to the pair of you for this. I caught up with him on the phone tonight and he didn't think that they were telling the full story when he and his family visited. The guys at Butterley said that they'd lost a fair amount of money which is very sad but I would have thought they could make a claim against WCRC?