West Highland line Alco blockage 27.10.22

[kingqueen]

I'm on the southbound Sleeper at Rannoch.
We will be here some time, cos there's a freight train broken down on the single line south of us.
Freight train: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H24861/2022-10-27/detailed#allox_id=0
Us: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C43586/2022-10-27/detailed#allox_id=0
Our loco has detached and gone to attempt to Thunderbird the alco into Rannoch passing loop so we can get past.
Though how it will then reattach to our front, I don't know!

 

[185143]

Can the 73s run Top and Tail on the Sleeper?

 

[Bald Rick]

Though how it will then reattach to our front, I don't know!

It will go to the freight train. Pull it into Rannoch loop. Assuming that works, it will then leave the freight train, run round, and come back to you. Recouple, and away.

Ignore that, I misunderstood the logistics of the situation. I suspect the fact that you have two locos on the front means that you will go forward with just the one.

 

[ld0595]

It's been a while since I've taken the West Highland sleeper so this may be a daft question - isn't it just the one loco providing traction? How would the train still have power with the loco detached?
Edit: never mind, just realised RTT shows it having two locos. I thought it was just Inverness that had two.

 

[kingqueen]

There was 2 on the way down, 2 locos attached.

 

[43096]

It's been a while since I've taken the West Highland sleeper so this may be a daft question - isn't it just the one loco providing traction? How would the train still have power with the loco detached?
Edit: never mind, just realised RTT shows it having two locos. I thought it was just Inverness that had two.

RTT shows a pair of Class 73s on the train tonight, using the OP’s link above.

 

[kingqueen]

We have movement again.
Given that the Fort William northbound was 52 minutes late this morning due to rail adhesion issues, does the presumably-now-single loco cause any concerns?

 

[hexagon789]

We have movement again.
Given that the Fort William northbound was 52 minutes late this morning due to rail adhesion issues, does the presumably-now-single loco cause any concerns?

Concerns for...?

 

[fgwrich]

Concerns for...?

Presumably adhesion - the cause of this morning and this evenings issues.

Is it running with a single loco from Rannoch now or has the other 73 returned after providing assistance to the ALCO service?

*Edit, I was looking at the gradient profile down from Rannoch into Fort William. There's a few sharp steep climbs heading southwards, including prior to Tyndrum and Glen Douglas.

 

[Bald Rick]

We have movement again.
Given that the Fort William northbound was 52 minutes late this morning due to rail adhesion issues, does the presumably-now-single loco cause any concerns?

The most challenging bit will be from a standing start at Bridge of Orchy up to County March summit - 6 miles at an average of about 1:90. Then another climb from Arrochar. But the rain’s stopped. I reckon you’ll be ok.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably adhesion - the cause of this morning and this evenings issues. At least it's almost all down hill from Corrour, though you've got a considerable gradient up from Rannoch to the summit first!

Is it running with a single loco from Rannoch now or has the other 73 returned after providing assistance to the ALCO service?

Well I meant more in the sense of the end result.

If it is now running with only one loco, it will affect the running timed as well even without any further adhesion issues.

Though, does the schedule call for double heading?

 

[Bald Rick]

Well I meant more in the sense of the end result.

Can’t see you being much less than 2hr late into Euston.

 

[hexagon789]

Can’t see you being much less than 2hr late into Euston.

Will they hold the Inverness portion then?

 

[800001]

Surely the loco will detach from train it’s rescued and come back to couple up to your train? If it’s moved it to a loop it’s easy to do

 

[Bald Rick]

Will they hold the Inverness portion then?

Possibly.

The only other alternative is the FtBill portion terminating at Edinburgh and everyone being put on the 0540 to the Cross (arr ‘0940’) - which will actually be quicker for passengers than the sleeper would be if the Inverness was held (Best case arrival 1000).

Anyway the Ft Bill portion got over County March ok, and has made up some time.

 

[AVK17]

the alco

the ALCO service

(Rio Tinto) Alcan

 

[kingqueen]

I do hope I don't get decanted at Edinburgh; I'm disabled and it takes me a fair bit of time to get up and dressed.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

It will go to the freight train. Pull it into Rannoch loop. Assuming that works, it will then leave the freight train, run round, and come back to you. Recouple, and away.

Ignore that, I misunderstood the logistics of the situation. I suspect the fact that you have two locos on the front means that you will go forward with just the one.

- Leading loco detached from 1B01 (Sleeper)
- Attach to front of 6S45 and haul to just short of Rannoch.
- 73 detaches from 6S45 and re-attaches to 1B01.
- 1B01 awaits 6S45 having sand replenished and then 6S45 carries on. 1B01 waited 6S45 to clear Corrour before proceeding in case a shove was required (it wasn't).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looks like the ex Inverness portion is being held at Waverley for the ex Fort William portion.

 

[dk1]

Only around 80L into Euston if things continue as now. Will be nice to not see Caledonian Sleeper top of the PPM leader board for a change with the few trains they operate.

 

[JamieL]

Not sure if related but the northbound West Highland sleeper is delayed as well - currently stuck at Dumbarton!

Edit: engine trouble apparently.

 

[kingqueen]

Automatic money back for everybody on the train. An expensive night for the Sleeper. Or can they claim the tens of thousands of delay repay from the freight operator?

 

[John Bishop]

Automatic money back for everybody on the train. An expensive night for the Sleeper. Or can they claim the tens of thousands of delay repay from the freight operator?

If it’s adhesion then it will come from NR.

 

[D1537]

Not sure if related but the northbound West Highland sleeper is delayed as well - currently stuck at Dumbarton!

Edit: engine trouble apparently.

And terminated at Dumbarton. Traction was 66+73 so must have been a significant fault.

 

[kingqueen]

The southbound Aberdeen Sleeper was cancelled last night due to traction fault, according to RTT.

If it’s adhesion then it will come from NR.

I'm claiming delay repay on my ongoing travel back to Harrogate, even though on separate rail tickets.
This seems to confuse the Sleeper, but I note the tickets do say that they are issued under National Rail Conditions of Travel and CIV, which I know includes delay repay for split tickets.
They ask "is it national rail tickets? or a sleeper ticket and national rail tickets" - but the Sleeper ticket IS a national rail ticket

 

[omnicity4659]

(Rio Tinto) Alcan

It's Alvance these days.

 

[david1212]

When looking a RealTimeTrains late last night and wondering if the other portions would be held I saw that the Aberdeen portion was cancelled https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C43591/2022-10-27#allox_id=0

... The only other alternative is the FtBill portion terminating at Edinburgh and everyone being put on the 0540 to the Cross (arr ‘0940’) - which will actually be quicker for passengers than the sleeper would be if the Inverness was held (Best case arrival 1000). ......

I do hope I don't get decanted at Edinburgh; I'm disabled and it takes me a fair bit of time to get up and dressed.

A difficult call to delay Inverness passengers but equally poor to decant Fort William passengers from a sleeper berth to a day seated train plus operationally the stock had to get to London for the northbound services tonight. No Aberdeen tonight unless the stock is worked down ECS ?

The Edinburgh departure shows as 83 minutes late but increased to 109 minutes by Carstairs, pathing I guess. The main gain / recovery was after Coventry. Without the Edinburgh > Carstairs loss or if another 10 minutes could have been clawed back arrival would have been 59 rather than 69 minutes late against public rather than working timetable.
From a passenger perspective I suspect most happier with the full refund against 59 rather than 69 minutes delay and if Caledonian Sleeper can claim from Network Rail they do not loose financially.

 

[Bald Rick]

If it’s adhesion then it will come from NR.

The loco on the freight had run out of sand, so it will go to them.

however in the wonderful world of delay compensation, it’s fair to say that both NR and CS will probably both end up out of pocket on this one.

 

[ABB125]

The Fort William freight is (I believe) operated by GBRf, who also provide motive power for Caledonian Sleeper. Would this have helped in this particular situation (ie: both trains are operated by the same company)?

 

[dk1]

Caledonian Sleeper is currently bottom of the PPM heap on 57% which is worse than awful Avanti which generally holds that title but currently on 59%.