West Lothian buses

[Edirim]

43 Changeovers happen at Tesco although as with usual policy, you'll find every driver takes a seperate shuttle van over.
i think in time you will see the Lothian Country and East Coast guys have changeovers in town through the TravelHub at Shandwick Place which has driver facilities?
Would mean longer trips away from depots though but you could have them coming in on X17/X18 then break and one burl of the 43 then back out on the X17/X18...would require a few drivers to be based out of the TravelHub though but definately much more operationally sound.

 

[smtglasgow]

Moving to Livingston must have added to driver costs. Driver changeovers in St Andrews Sq seemed like a neat way to run the service. Maybe the 43 is cursed – too hard for anyone to run. What is it that makes the 43 so difficult? When you look at places like Penicuik or Dunbar, they’re miles from the depot, but there’s never been any suggestion that it’s an issue. Yet running from Livingston or Dunfermline did for the service under its previous operators. I know the traffic is bad through Barnton (and the train is competitive), but that goes for a lot of places around Edinburgh. Always seems busy leaving town, but does it carry many out to South Queensferry?

 

[Observer]

If it is that problematic then why not have an outstation for SQ? At least with Stagecoach they kept a spare bus at Tesco in case of any breakdowns.

 

[In Focus]

Unless you have business insurance you can’t use your own vehicle and most people wouldn’t do it anyway

Strange then so many private cars parked on Dean's Road for change overs ?

 

[In Focus]

If it is that problematic then why not have an outstation for SQ? At least with Stagecoach they kept a spare bus at Tesco in case of any breakdowns.

First thought about that at the old Navy base on Queensferry Road but it never came to anything.

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Strange then so many private cars parked on Dean's Road for change overs ?

That could be drivers who are due finished there and want a quick exit home .since there’s no cash handling there’s no need for the driver then to go back to the depot for their car .

 

[In Focus]

That could be drivers who are due finished there and want a quick exit home .since there’s no cash handling there’s no need for the driver then to go back to the depot for their car .

How do they get there ,Maybe going for a changeover ?
What's difference driving to queensferry for a changeover ,finishing there and getting a quick exit home (especially if you live in the East)?

 

[In Focus]

That could be drivers who are due finished there and want a quick exit home .since there’s no cash handling there’s no need for the driver then to go back to the depot for their car .

You would also think it was illegal to park half on and half of a pavement and in a information layby, seems not though as it happens every day now .

 

[Driver362]

They do it to save walking from the depot and also for a quick exit at Finnish time, doesn't look pretty but that's the reasons

 

[Weemidi135]

Strange then so many private cars parked on Dean's Road for change overs ?

Saves us walking which is different to van time

 

[In Focus]

They do it to save walking from the depot and also for a quick exit at Finnish time, doesn't look pretty but that's the reasons

Drastic if its pouring down with rain that walking from depot to Mossbank Roundabout then sitting on a bus for few hours I'd imagine ?

 

[In Focus]

Saves us walking which is different to van time

So how does that differ from the company making you go straight to Queensferry and start your duty and finish over there with your vehicle?
Saves you walking or going to depot surely and saves then paying 60 mins travelling time on each change over!

 

[lastbus]

So how does that differ from the company making you go straight to Queensferry and start your duty and finish over there with your vehicle?
Saves you walking or going to depot surely and saves then paying 60 mins travelling time on each change over!

No driver is going to take their own vehicle to quensferry at potentially an added cost to them to help save the company money. It wasn’t their decision for this service to be operated from Livingston. The company was aware of the costs involved when it switched the service so they can deal with it.

 

[Weemidi135]

So how does that differ from the company making you go straight to Queensferry and start your duty and finish over there with your vehicle?
Saves you walking or going to depot surely and saves then paying 60 mins travelling time on each change over!

Because this would not work for starters the guy who leaves Livingston in the morning what’s he going to do walk back to livingston and same with the last driver at night what is he going to walk back to queensferry

 

[90019]

So how does that differ from the company making you go straight to Queensferry and start your duty and finish over there with your vehicle?

Because travel to and from Queensferry isn't walking time, and a vehicle is provided because of the distance.

A driver using their own car to travel to and from a bus without having business insurance voids their insurance in the event of an accident.

 

[In Focus]

Because this would not work for starters the guy who leaves Livingston in the morning what’s he going to do walk back to livingston and same with the last driver at night what is he going to walk back to queensferry

How many could start and finish at queensferry ?

 

[In Focus]

Because travel to and from Queensferry isn't walking time, and a vehicle is provided because of the distance.
At a fair cost to company ,viable long term ?

A driver using their own car to travel to and from a bus without having business insurance voids their insurance in the event of an accident.

So those cars parked on Dean's road owners insurance is void if they are taking up a vehicle there ?

 

[90019]

It depends when they parked the car there.

 

[Weemidi135]

So those cars parked on Dean's road owners insurance is void if they are taking up a vehicle there ?

No because they move it during there unpaid break when your not working

 

[Weemidi135]

How many could start and finish at queensferry ?

None because there is no permanent 43 shift

 

[overthewater]

This is a game changing. West Lothian council will now cough up the Winchburgh Bus Route Development Grant Kick Start Funding, The bidding ends in 4 weeks and start in Jan 2020..
https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP367301

If lothian wins its get funded paid service against First, If First wins its will mean its get operate the 600 for free and keep Lothian away. IF Horsburgh wins it will be waste of public money someone should investigate.

 

[LiviCrazy]

This is a game changing. West Lothian council will now cough up the Winchburgh Bus Route Development Grant Kick Start Funding, The bidding ends in 4 weeks and start in Jan 2020..
https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP367301

If lothian wins its get funded paid service against First, If First wins its will mean its get operate the 600 for free and keep Lothian away. IF Horsburgh wins it will be waste of public money someone should investigate.

I do have to take issue with your latter comment. I am a Procurement Manager at a public body. We are subject to rigorous rules and regulations at all levels with intense scrutiny on all our contracting by Scottish Government and EU.

I know from various colleagues that Horsburgh are actually exceptionally good at tendering. When tendering we cannot, by law, consider past performance or personal experience, we can only go by what they submit and present to us. You will also find that most public sector contracts are actually heavy weighted towards their quality submission rather than their price.

In contrast in the past both First in this area and Lothian have been historically poor at tendering though I believe they are improving.

 

[Stan Drews]

This is a game changing. West Lothian council will now cough up the Winchburgh Bus Route Development Grant Kick Start Funding, The bidding ends in 4 weeks and start in Jan 2020..
https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP367301

If lothian wins its get funded paid service against First, If First wins its will mean its get operate the 600 for free and keep Lothian away. IF Horsburgh wins it will be waste of public money someone should investigate.

The expected cost of the contract is £125k, effectively one PVR, so whilst it will be welcome additional revenue for the successful operator, I’m not sure I’d describe it as game changing.

 

[overthewater]

I think it's rather telling your included

When tendering we cannot, by law, consider past performance or personal experience, we can only go by what they submit and present to us. .

Your not going change mine or anyone else mind about THAT company, awful awful company.

 

[overthewater]

The expected cost of the contract is £125k, effectively one PVR, so whilst it will be welcome additional revenue for the successful operator, I’m not sure I’d describe it as game changing.

Where has the other pile of money gone? it was supposed to be alot more than that, unless its rolling process since, we still have alot more housing to come. 125K has come as a bit of a shock, however it better than being lost to the winds.

 

[Observer]

I do have to take issue with your latter comment. I am a Procurement Manager at a public body. We are subject to rigorous rules and regulations at all levels with intense scrutiny on all our contracting by Scottish Government and EU.

I know from various colleagues that Horsburgh are actually exceptionally good at tendering. When tendering we cannot, by law, consider past performance or personal experience, we can only go by what they submit and present to us. You will also find that most public sector contracts are actually heavy weighted towards their quality submission rather than their price.

In contrast in the past both First in this area and Lothian have been historically poor at tendering though I believe they are improving.

Good at tendering....with suicide pricing tactics by getting contracts for peanuts, which obviously reflects the standard of their vehicles and drivers.

At the end of the day, that's why they have been getting those contracts. Because the councils don't care how bad they are, as long as they don't have to pay much.

 

[Driver362]

Exactly my kids school bus hasn't been on time picking them up since term started. Never the same driver 2 days running thus not only do they turn up 20 mins late they get lost too, often. Kids knocking lumps outa each other driver not giving a toot. Sitting with earphones in and more bothered about having fly smoke. Wish the council would do proper due diligence and hold them to there undertakings! You know what they say pay peanuts you get monkeys

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I can see Lothian perhaps trying to take that offer up, would give them another new area to operate in anyway

 

[LiviCrazy]

Good at tendering....with suicide pricing tactics by getting contracts for peanuts, which obviously reflects the standard of their vehicles and drivers.

At the end of the day, that's why they have been getting those contracts. Because the councils don't care how bad they are, as long as they don't have to pay much.

Having done some further reading I am somewhat surprised about how heavily weighted WLCs bus tenders are to price. This is actually against good practice though not against the rules. In my sector we weight heavily to quality, most of my tenders go out at 60%+ quality. Very very few are won on price.

I will accept that in this case I was wrong, though I will say WLCs practices are poor practice but not against the regulations (which are world leading at present).

 

[overthewater]

This is not a surprise.