West Lothian buses

[In Focus]

I'm loving the negativity on this thread

The idea of broken windows will obviously come as a shock to the bus company who've been running services to genteel places like Muirhouse/ Niddrie for longer than we've been alive.

It's amazing how everything Lothian do seems to get a negative reaction on here (rather than, say, discussing when the last direct daytime bus service from Edinburgh to Fauldhouse was, or assessing whether the "Green Arrow" name would be a means of changing the "Lothian Country" brand away from the "Lothian City" one so that the green/rural routes can move away from the rigid fare structure that a "Lothian" company has to fit into).

Negativity or realism ? Some seem very reticent to accept the reality of public transport in West Lothian, I'm going to guess most do not actually live or work in this area.
As for Fauldhouse to Edinburgh I will let people work out (so I'm not being perceived as negative) as to why its been so long since it was tried ?

 

[overthewater]

Negativity or realism ? Some seem very reticent to accept the reality of public transport in West Lothian, I'm going to guess most do not actually live or work in this area.
As for Fauldhouse to Edinburgh I will let people work out (so I'm not being perceived as negative) as to why its been so long since it was tried ?

Other good questions include, why apart from carbon copy of the 25 does lothian not have any direct services? Why does everything go via howden or Craigshill? Why hasn't sorted out its weekly or monthly tickets?

People still say oh but you can by X5 bundle for £20... does lothian not want you to travel at the weekends? Yet First it was only £18.00 for 7 days? you can do it with nearly all the other tickets, can people really not do maths?

 

[Jordan Adam]

From what i gather so far (certainly the X17 and X18 back this up) Lothian are trying to go up against the train rather than using it to their advantage.

In my view they should...

• Withdraw the 287
• Divert the 275 to serve Bathgate after Blackburn.
• Divert the X17 to Harthill via Blackburn after serving Livingston (offers a new direct link to Edinburgh that's not already covered)
• Extend the 281 to Fauldhouse.
• Extend the X18 to Fauldhouse. (I'm less keen on this)

 

[TheEastCoaster]

In my view they should...

• Withdraw the 287
• Divert the 275 to serve Bathgate after Blackburn.
• Divert the X17 to Harthill via Blackburn after serving Livingston (offers a new direct link to Edinburgh that's not already covered)
• Extend the 281 to Fauldhouse.
• Extend the X18 to Fauldhouse. (I'm less keen on this)

I would extend the 281 to Whitburn and have a new service for the coaches direct to Harthill via the M8 and Livingston and then via Blackburn and Whitburn. maybe a (X16?) Extend the X18 to Fauldhouse as suggested too so we have 3 different services in Whitburn to connect in each different direction!

And then whenever the inevitable 38 clone comes along in the near future, maybe we could see a Linlithgow to Livingston service too? Anything is possible at this point!

 

[In Focus]

People still say oh but you can by X5 bundle for £20... does lothian not want you to travel at the weekends? Yet First it was only £18.00 for 7 days? you can do it with nearly all the other tickets, can people really not do maths?

I think you can guarantee prices will drop again .

 

[Jordan Adam]

I would extend the 281 to Whitburn and have a new service for the coaches direct to Harthill via the M8 and Livingston and then via Blackburn and Whitburn. maybe a (X16?) Extend the X18 to Fauldhouse as suggested too so we have 3 different services in Whitburn to connect in each different direction!

And then whenever the inevitable 38 clone comes along in the near future, maybe we could see a Linlithgow to Livingston service too? Anything is possible at this point!

I can't see them taking on the 38 in full, however a Edinburgh-Kirkliston-Winchburgh-Broxburn-Livingston route wouldn't surprise me.

 

[overthewater]

I think you can guarantee prices will drop again .

I dont see any point right now while Lothian overcharge people.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I can't see them taking on the 38 in full, however a Edinburgh-Kirkliston-Winchburgh-Broxburn-Livingston route wouldn't surprise me.

I’m surprised we never got that for Phase 1 tbh, it would of been perfect for a starter point, even if the 275 went via Kirkliston but too late now

 

[overthewater]

The whole lothian adventure has been a complete mess from the start, this is the main reason why many of us are not impressed with this.

 

[In Focus]

I dont see any point right now while Lothian overcharge people.

I meant the other company watch this space ......

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The whole lothian adventure has been a complete mess from the start, this is the main reason why many of us are not impressed with this.

You say many, I say maybe 50/50 to bounce off the negatives I don’t know what everyone else would expect from Lothian when they were at starting this venture, like copying old routes with a twist. like what Lothian did in East Lothian, If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

 

[overthewater]

You say many, I say maybe 50/50 to bounce off the negatives I don’t know what everyone else would expect from Lothian when they were at starting this venture, like copying old routes with a twist. like what Lothian did in East Lothian, If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

Then the other 50 need to get the eyes check!, over priced tickets? routes that were broken to pot and don't give any real choice? Why would you pay more on slower indirect bus ?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Then the other 50 need to get the eyes check!, over priced tickets? routes that were broken to pot and don't give any real choice? Why would you pay more on slower indirect bus ?

I’m not disagreeing with you on the ticket things, however as a ridacard user I tend to think Lothian country’s offer are to me better value and the 7.50 dayticket is a good bargain for those who want further travel into Edinburgh, which you can’t argue is a bad thing, however I can’t say it’s more beneficial for the locals within West Lothian unless they work/travel beyond the city centre, maybe first is cheaper in that regard, and comparing the 23 to the X27/X28, within Livingston I can’t comment because I don’t know if the route is that different to the X27/X28 beyond the centre, but to town, Lothian definitely win in that aspect by using the fountain park route.

Point is there is problems on both ends but also positives, everyone has there preferences and I’m one of those 50% who are on the LCB side, I completely understand why locals will stay with first but besides the negatives we can’t overlook the positives that LCB do bring to the table

 

[overthewater]

If lothian fixed the fare and rejigged the routes there would probably win hands down, but after 6 month they digging in, and it's making people wonder what its real end game is. The thing is, there probably is a good number of people who work outside the city centre, however there either already get the train in to edinburgh and change to Lothian service or take the car. LCB need to up its game to win these passengers back. You just have to look at Maybury Road to see all the traffic Coming down from North Edinburgh heading back to West lothian. How many people really need to go Fort Kinnard etc.

23 goes direct to deans, 27 runs every 15mins to Craigshill and St Johns and 26 runes every 15mins to St johns, Knightbridges, Yet the LCB X27/28 cover all those areas resulting in longer journey times, 280 now goes around Ladywell E Rd while First 25 goes woosh...

I don't see any problems on the first side, it has better routes, newer buses and cheaper weekly and monthly tickets. Singles are a false economy. So what are the positives that LCB bring to the table?

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't see any problems on the first side, it has better routes, newer buses and cheaper weekly and monthly tickets. Singles are a false economy. So what are the positives that LCB bring to the table?

"Better interior colour schemes" (as if the general public care)...

 

[LiviCrazy]

Have to dispute the speed of going by the Western Approach Road.

I have regularly caught 23/X23 from Sighthill to City Centre (I’m a first pass holder) at about 17:15 there is a LCB one due about the same time. On every single occasion the 23/X23 has beaten the LCB bus that left the Sighthill stop at the same time.

I will say that off peak, the LCBs are faster from Livingston to Edinburgh in comparison to the First equivalent routes, however I don’t think this will last, most of the time around my area when I’m driving the car around the X27/X28s are doing 40mph+ in a 30 area. They’ve also nearly had a few accidents coming up the hill into Kirknewton as they don’t slow down at all there.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Could LCB have any success bringing back Nordi’s 630 to Ocean Terminal? With the amount of workers based at Victoria Key and around the Western General area that surely has potential?

 

[In Focus]

Interesting move to test the water?

 

[Volvodart]

The timetable for the new X17 is available on Traveline Scotland, if you enter the correct date, but the pdf download does not appear to be there.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The timetable for the new X17 is available on Traveline Scotland, if you enter the correct date, but the pdf download does not appear to be there.

You can view it on Bustimes.org
https://bustimes.org/services/x17-fauldhouse-edinburgh

 

[overthewater]

30 mins to Broxburn are we living in the dark ages? I wonder why no one has tried Livingston - St johns H - Craighill - Almond South Road - East Calder - A71

Point is there is problems on both ends but also positives, everyone has there preferences and I’m one of those 50% who are on the LCB side, I completely understand why locals will stay with first but besides the negatives we can’t overlook the positives that LCB do bring to the table

So what are the positives that LCB bring to the table? I would love to hear this. Fairs, fair...

 

[tbtc]

Negativity or realism ? Some seem very reticent to accept the reality of public transport in West Lothian, I'm going to guess most do not actually live or work in this area.
As for Fauldhouse to Edinburgh I will let people work out (so I'm not being perceived as negative) as to why its been so long since it was tried ?

I'd say negativity...

Notice how the pattern goes:

• Lothian broadly replicate a current First route: This is a bad thing because they are copy cats, jobs are at risk etc
• Lothian broadly replicate a previous First route: This is a bad thing because First pulled out of that route for a reason, it's bound to fail
• Lothian introduce a broadly new route (or provide links not previously provided): This is a bad thing because there's no market for that, because if there was a market then First would have tried, there must be a reason why nobody has previously attempted such a service
• Lothian broadly replicate a ScotRail service: This is a bad thing because nobody is going to sit on a bus all that way when the train is faster (ignoring the fact that Lothian seem to manage to run buses from North Berwick/ Dunbar etc into Edinburgh)

Essentially, everything that Lothian do is treated negatively on here - they are damned if they try new things and damned if they try old things.

Personally, I'd have handled Lothian's adventure differently - I'm not saying I agree with everything they've done. I'd have focussed the Edinburgh expresses on areas inbetween the two rail lines (e.g. serving Blackburn, Whitburn), I wouldn't have run the X27/X28 all the way through to Bathgate (since it becomes unreliable to run routes with a four hour round trip), I'd have tried to focus on getting First off certain areas (e.g. if you can cut off the Edinburgh part of First's operations, leaving them with the local West Lothian local stuff) rather than introducing lots of half hourly services all over the shop, but I can see why they are doing what they are doing, they are getting stuck in for the long game.

It's just that the reactions on this thread seem to be very negative and unable to see the two operators fairly - we seem to have a few "fanboys" on here, and I guess that the psyche means that any operator perceived to be doing well in the public eye are quickly criticised by "enthusiasts" (witness enthusiast criticisms of TrentBarton or Transdev for daring to be positive and upbeat and promoting their business).

 

[overthewater]

I'm criticising Lothian for the exact same things I cresitised First for, Also it was warned about the X18, and look whats happened its been pulled out of Wester Inch within 3 months, that main area which was going to compete with Scotfail, and now there have extended it down to Whitburn.

Lothian has come in at the wrong time, with a jack the lad attitude, It had no focus on routes, it's impossible to see what its trying to achieve. Its been so half arsed is unreal. Again I see a post saying Lothian not that bad yet misses out the Weekly/monthly ticket problems. That partly why is annoying - Lothian has made a complete pigs ear of this adventure into West Lothian, Heck there should have went to Kirkliston and Winchburgh last November, by running a route like the 600 but going into the City instead of the Airport. The trying to cover all the bases and its not given anyone a good level of service.

 

[In Focus]

I'd say negativity...

Notice how the pattern goes:

• Lothian broadly replicate a current First route: This is a bad thing because they are copy cats, jobs are at risk etc
• Lothian broadly replicate a previous First route: This is a bad thing because First pulled out of that route for a reason, it's bound to fail
• Lothian introduce a broadly new route (or provide links not previously provided): This is a bad thing because there's no market for that, because if there was a market then First would have tried, there must be a reason why nobody has previously attempted such a service
• Lothian broadly replicate a ScotRail service: This is a bad thing because nobody is going to sit on a bus all that way when the train is faster (ignoring the fact that Lothian seem to manage to run buses from North Berwick/ Dunbar etc into Edinburgh)

Essentially, everything that Lothian do is treated negatively on here - they are damned if they try new things and damned if they try old things.

Personally, I'd have handled Lothian's adventure differently - I'm not saying I agree with everything they've done. I'd have focussed the Edinburgh expresses on areas inbetween the two rail lines (e.g. serving Blackburn, Whitburn), I wouldn't have run the X27/X28 all the way through to Bathgate (since it becomes unreliable to run routes with a four hour round trip), I'd have tried to focus on getting First off certain areas (e.g. if you can cut off the Edinburgh part of First's operations, leaving them with the local West Lothian local stuff) rather than introducing lots of half hourly services all over the shop, but I can see why they are doing what they are doing, they are getting stuck in for the long game.

It's just that the reactions on this thread seem to be very negative and unable to see the two operators fairly - we seem to have a few "fanboys" on here, and I guess that the psyche means that any operator perceived to be doing well in the public eye are quickly criticised by "enthusiasts" (witness enthusiast criticisms of TrentBarton or Transdev for daring to be positive and upbeat and promoting their business).

So now your going to disprove these opinions by pointing to exactly the opposite and accentuate the positives LCB have brought to West Lothian,
Why copying First routes is some kind of good business or shows a progressive forward thinking company ?
Why attempting routes SMT /First stopped doing as they were losing pots of money and that was pre train days.?
Why anyone planning a route would go into Wester Inch with all the hazards it holds or why anyone thinks taking longer to get to a destination is going to sway the passengers.?
Why you would publicise a new depot ,then go quiet when you realise you've actually paid for a disaster area rife with issues?

One good thing and positive they have brought is competition which is always good for companies to keep them on their toes and making sure they keep their eye on the ball and making sure fares are kept to a realistic level .

 

[overthewater]

Strange thing is fare First charge is the going rate it would seem and the passengers in West Lothian have been diluted, in think there pay to much.

 

[In Focus]

Strange thing is fare First charge is the going rate it would seem and the passengers in West Lothian have been diluted, in think there pay to much.

Of course some were paying too much ,people in rural areas were being thumped on single fares simply for being so far out which is ridiculous, as I say competition shall alter that .
First now offering a 1 week promotion of just £15 for 7 days travel on LM zone ticket from next week which would seem to support this theory .

 

[backontrack]

Lothian broadly replicate a ScotRail service: This is a bad thing because nobody is going to sit on a bus all that way when the train is faster (ignoring the fact that Lothian seem to manage to run buses from North Berwick/ Dunbar etc into Edinburgh)

The 124 does seem to be mostly Port Seton/Aberlady/Gullane/Dirleton flows rather than anything else, but it still does OK and it itself is replacing an old First service so that criticism falls down regardless.

I'd have focussed the Edinburgh expresses on areas inbetween the two rail lines (e.g. serving Blackburn, Whitburn), I wouldn't have run the X27/X28 all the way through to Bathgate (since it becomes unreliable to run routes with a four hour round trip), I'd have tried to focus on getting First off certain areas (e.g. if you can cut off the Edinburgh part of First's operations, leaving them with the local West Lothian local stuff) rather than introducing lots of half hourly services all over the shop, but I can see why they are doing what they are doing, they are getting stuck in for the long game.

Same. It seems more sensible (and better for customers) to provide a better service from the likes of Blackburn and Whitburn to Edinburgh, but you can see why Lothian might want to get stuck in themselves. First were quite clearly there for the taking.

 

[In Focus]

but you can see why Lothian might want to get stuck in themselves. First were quite clearly there for the taking.

Considering the investment in Livingston depot what would make you think that ?
As has been said 5 years ago perhaps you would have had a valid point but recently I'm not so sure .

 

[overthewater]

The 124 does seem to be mostly Port Seton/Aberlady/Gullane/Dirleton flows rather than anything else, but it still does OK and it itself is replacing an old First service so that criticism falls down regardless..

Of course that has nothing to do with the fact Lothian pulled off its own service over part of the route and forced all the passengers to use ECB instead? Lets not forget Trenent who had 44 every 20mins, and now only have LCB routes.

 

[OmniCity999]

Of course that has nothing to do with the fact Lothian pulled off its own service over part of the route and forced all the passengers to use ECB instead? Lets not forget Trenent who had 44 every 20mins, and now only have LCB routes.

And the 26 / X44...