West Lothian buses

[Jordan Adam]

His calculator must have been broken...

I'm not a mind reader, so i couldn't comment, Only assume.

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

I still can’t understand why they didn't just try the EX2 as Falkirk > Polmont > Linlithgow > Springfield > M9 and so on...

First left a hole when they removed the x38.

X38 did nothing 2 maybe 3 passengers ( concessions) Edinburgh to Falkirk and it was only placing journeys really .2 journeys in morning returning 2 in afternoon going to Edinburgh.if x38 was developed say maybe from Forth valley hospital to Edinburgh or even from Stirling it might have been more popular.lithgow depot done an x30 all those years ago (was it x30?) and don’t think that was well used or never worked right because of traffic.

 

[overthewater]

Good afternoon,

There is a 10 jounrey ticket I just never included it in the pics because I wanted to make it easier for the Volvodart hence why I just typed in the 10 journey ticket. however since its been highlighted here it is:

https://lothiancountry.co.uk/green-arrow-timetables-and-fares/

and here is the pic, alas it was £39.50 So somewhere in the middle it seems. However its still not good vaule since the train weekly as already been stated are only a few pounds more and covers 7 days not just 5.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Ticket prices are becoming increasing unattractive across the entire UK, bus transport used to be much more worth its money!

Trains seem to be lobbied to be the more attractive and cheaper option.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Additionally I think new bus lanes need to be developed approaching the m90 spur!

 

[JamboCommuter]

My view is that these services are not aimed at current bus or train commuters, but at those who commute by car.

The services are clearly meant to provide an enhanced level of comfort with a reasonable front door to office desk level of convenience.

Price is not always the overriding factor in considering how to get to work each day.

If they want to fill the off peak daytime services perhaps divert some down to the Western General, (missing out the Morrison Street loop). Parking down there can be a nightmare and I'm sure there are folk in West Lothian who would use a direct service.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The only other factor in this venture from bathgate or lithy is the use of coaches...

It does beat traveling on a rickety Streetlite to edinburgh

 

[Siemens Trains]

It was aggressive attempt at bullying First out of the area ,whether it works only time will tell !

Considering how quick many people are to suggest that Lothian have chosen the wrong routes, wrong stopping/terminal points, wrong fares, wrong season tickets and wrong vehicles, it doesn't look like an accusation of aggression or bullying is warranted. It's more a case of offering a choice, at least for the moment. That's sometimes viewed as an advantage enabled by the deregulated environment. As you say, time will tell.

 

[In Focus]

Considering how quick many people are to suggest that Lothian have chosen the wrong routes, wrong stopping/terminal points, wrong fares, wrong season tickets and wrong vehicles, it doesn't look like an accusation of aggression or bullying is warranted. It's more a case of offering a choice, at least for the moment. That's sometimes viewed as an advantage enabled by the deregulated environment. As you say, time will tell.

The bullying part comes not on routes or tickets they are showing their naivety with that, it comes from the fact they knew the venture will lose a load of cash unless they bully first out of the area by flooding roads with loss making vehicles .

 

[Jordan Adam]

Considering how quick many people are to suggest that Lothian have chosen the wrong routes, wrong stopping/terminal points, wrong fares, wrong season tickets and wrong vehicles, it doesn't look like an accusation of aggression or bullying is warranted. It's more a case of offering a choice, at least for the moment. That's sometimes viewed as an advantage enabled by the deregulated environment. As you say, time will tell.

Bad choice... So far they've just tried to compete with the train, existing First routes or recreate old First routes on a scaled down frequency. The only fresh potentially viable ideas that offer choice are the X17, X18 and maybe slightly the 275, the EX2 if extended could turn in to something too. The rest of the routes offer nothing new other than poorer fares and slower journey times.

The bullying part comes not on routes or tickets they are showing their naivety with that, it comes from the fact they knew the venture will lose a load of cash unless they bully first out of the area by flooding roads with loss making vehicles .

In fairness any operator who enters a bus war will try and get as many newer vehicles as they can. Albeit the 15 year old ELV Eclipse's on the X17 was an odd move.

 

[duncombec]

and here is the pic, alas it was £39.50 So somewhere in the middle it seems. However its still not good vaule since the train weekly as already been stated are only a few pounds more and covers 7 days not just 5.
View attachment 64638

But a 10 journey ticket is not the same as a weekly ticket, they look at different markets. Unlike the train 7 days from the day of purchase, these journeys can be used at any time over 180 days. Ideal for people who only work three or four days a week, or who only commute in one way and back another (I do this into London, take the commuter coach in but back by train if I am socializing after work).

By all means criticise, but at least compare your Granny Smiths with your Pink Ladies, rather than your Conferences.

 

[Observer]

Bad choice... So far they've just tried to compete with the train, existing First routes or recreate old First routes on a scaled down frequency. The only fresh potentially viable ideas that offer choice are the X17, X18 and maybe slightly the 275, the EX2 if extended could turn in to something too. The rest of the routes offer nothing new other than poorer fares and slower journey times.



In fairness any operator who enters a bus war will try and get as many newer vehicles as they can. Albeit the 15 year old ELV Eclipse's on the X17 was an odd move.

Maybe they should have went with the Eclipses to start the whole operation instead of empty double deckers.

Yes, a few of them were sold to a few companies beforehand, but there would still have been enough for a share.

 

[overthewater]

But a 10 journey ticket is not the same as a weekly ticket, they look at different markets. Unlike the train 7 days from the day of purchase, these journeys can be used at any time over 180 days. Ideal for people who only work three or four days a week, or who only commute in one way and back another (I do this into London, take the commuter coach in but back by train if I am socializing after work).

By all means criticise, but at least compare your Granny Smiths with your Pink Ladies, rather than your Conferences.

10 journey ticket saves you 50p.... Compares to 5 returns.

There is no weekly alas, so ..

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The Silver Lining... Its just one bus company competing with another with low ridership in the designated area...

 

[duncombec]

10 journey ticket saves you 50p.... Compares to 5 returns.

There is no weekly alas, so ..

As I said, the two appeal to different markets. Whilst some people will use 2 of their 10 bundle as a day return, others will not. Also, the true comparison is against 10 singles, which this offers a saving of £10.50.

Speaking from experience of a company that offers both (and 40 journey bundles as well as monthly), people can and do use different tickets for different things.

 

[overthewater]

Good for you

Still not getting your point. Understand why your saying it. But in the context ive highlighted its still unclear

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is this continued discussion on prices etc really going anywhere? Perhaps it’s best to see what actually happens?

 

[smtglasgow]

As I said, the two appeal to different markets. Whilst some people will use 2 of their 10 bundle as a day return, others will not. Also, the true comparison is against 10 singles, which this offers a saving of £10.50.

Speaking from experience of a company that offers both (and 40 journey bundles as well as monthly), people can and do use different tickets for different things.

This sort of ticket is going to become far more common across bus and rail. Probably only possible now with m-tickets or smartcards. Think Scotrail's paper Flexipass tickets were infamous for the amount of fraud. Too many of us are now working odd combinations of office/home working – traditional season tickets don’t reflect these changes in work patterns. But to get back on topic, LCB don’t half make things hard for themselves with their ticketing. Would a West Lothian Ridacard (with different prices to reflect the fare zones) kill them?

 

[scotrail158713]

But to get back on topic, LCB don’t half make things hard for themselves with their ticketing. Would a West Lothian Ridacard (with different prices to reflect the fare zones) kill them?

I’m not getting my hopes up as it’s been 3 years since East Coast Buses started, and there’s still no Ridacard for zones E&F there yet.

 

[Train368]

I’m not getting my hopes up as it’s been 3 years since East Coast Buses started, and there’s still no Ridacard for zones E&F there yet.

I'm sure on their Facebook page they said they were looking into a review of the ticketing system. An weekly/monthly ticket would maybe convince more passengers from First as I'm sure First already offer them between West Lothian and Edinburgh?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I’m not getting my hopes up as it’s been 3 years since East Coast Buses started, and there’s still no Ridacard for zones E&F there yet.

Heck I’m sure getting a Zone C or D Ridacard is rare these days as there’s nothing on the Lothian website about it at all!

 

[scotrail158713]

Heck I’m sure getting a Zone C or D Ridacard is rare these days as there’s nothing on the Lothian website about it at all!

Yeah, they seem to be some top-secret card that no one is allowed to buy. The travel shops are the only places that you can buy them apparently. It does seem as if they try their hardest to put off long-term passengers.

 

[overthewater]

Back in west Lothian I think it's rather telling that even with the highland show on the buses are not busier. Why would you drive in long ques and parking a tenner to park would put people off.

 

[DunsBus]

There's a good interview in the latest Buses mag with First Scotland's Andrew Jarvis. While LCB have picked up some passengers in West Lothian, the bulk are staying loyal to First and explains why LCB's buses are running around empty all the time.

This backs up what I said on this thread some time back. LCB went into West Lothian expecting a mass exodus of passengers from First and this simply hasn't happened. If anything, First have the upper hand. No amount of positive spin from LCB hides the fact that its foray into West Lothian looks to be a step too far.

 

[overthewater]

IF LCB had started the Green arrow today and added in a stop at Next to the BP garage on the A8, it could have in theory resulted in full coaches for passengers traveling to the Highland show..

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

I watched as I was at ingleston and loads of folk at the stop and lcb went past not stopping in Both directions Do they have a stop there ? Needles to say the 24 25 and 38s were busy busy .

 

[Gingerbus1991]

If Lothian were far more RUTHLESS they’d make a far bigger dent to firsts ridership...

 

[In Focus]

If Lothian were far more RUTHLESS they’d make a far bigger dent to firsts ridership...

Like First are about to be on the Tours you mean ? (Different thread I know)

 

[In Focus]

I watched as I was at ingleston and loads of folk at the stop and lcb went past not stopping in Both directions Do they have a stop there ? Needles to say the 24 25 and 38s were busy busy .

The X18 and 275 I saw both used the outside lanes on A8 with no intention of stopping . Not sure if that was under instruction but I would doubt that.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Like First are about to be on the Tours you mean ? (Different thread I know)

That was my thought too. First could also have been more strident before now so it does cut both ways.