West Midlands Metro - Future Feasible Expansion

[PsychoMouse]

With the HS2 phase 2 scrapping and the promise (lol) of money diverted to other regional projects, including the WMM, where do you think that realistic expansion of the network could happen? I have a few thoughts.

• The ending of the line at Edgbaston Village with seemingly no future plans of extension always struck me as very odd. I believe there is a massive scope for extening this down the very busy Hagley Road to the Wolverhampton Road Junction and then turn left down the B4121 all the way down to Northfield and following the A38 to Rubery. All of these roads are wide enough with most of it having large central reservations meaning disruption would be fairly small.
• Reignite the original plan of the Airport Line running from Digbeth onto the rail lines at Small Heath and then onto the A45 towards Sheldon. Then instead of onward to the airport, running up Lode Lane past JLR to Solihull should be feasible too. The roads and buses are always overwhelmed during shift changes there.
• Orbital Line for south/east Birmingham. The city is very hub and spoke, it's easy to get to and from the centre but slow to get across between suburbs. a route connecting the above two lines and to the planned Eastside/Solihull extension running Longbridge-Northfield-Cotteridge-Kings Heath-Hall Green-Acocks Green-Swan-Meadway-Stechford
• Extend the planned Brierley Hill terminus to Stourbridge Junction taking over the Town shuttle.
• Turn the future Y junction at Wednesbury into an X and run to to Walsall with scope to extend to Sutton Coldfield.

Slightly more fantastical.

• Something following the A34 to Great Barr.
• Streetly-Oscott-Castle Vale-Shard End-Chelmsley-HS2 Interchange-Airport-Solihull-Shirley

 

[david1212]

From the Trams to Wolverhampton Railway Station thread

How did a 700 metre extension cost £50 million. Thats one million pound per 14 metres! Does the price tag include new rolling stock etc?

The original cost at the time of approval in 2016 is stated as £18,000,000. Reference

https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/midland-metro-extension-to-wolverhampton-approved.

Even that seems a lot of money something like 1300m of plain track, two points and a diamond crossing at St George's and a y-point at the station, the catenary and three raised platforms.
Regardless of the Covid epidemic and generally construction costs increasing more than average inflation the final bill being 275% higher can not bode well for further investment in the West Midlands Metro.

If the current extension to Dudley, Merry Hill and possibly Brierley Hill is delivered on time and on budget then proposals / submissions for further investment in the West Midlands Metro ought to be more likely to secure some of the funding released from scrapping HS2 phase 2.

 

[Meerkat]

It’s not that much more more money and not just the metro to spend it on.
Not sure it will stretch to more than completing the original plan to Brierley Hill

 

[birchesgreen]

Going north through Aston then along the A38 up to Pype Hayes then up to Sutton Coldfield. Much of the route still has the central reservations from when the trams were there before. Be a great route i am sure, the fact it would go past my house is purely incidental.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Slightly more fantastical.

• Something following the A34 to Great Barr.

I'm 99% sure there was a plan at one stage for a extension along those lines to the M6 J7 and a Park and Ride.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Continue the expansion in Wolverhampton and take dozens of cars and buses off the road by running around the ring road and out to the Molineux, then back and out via the Tettenhall road to Tettenhall...

Be a great route I am sure, the fact it would go past my flat is purely incidental.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

I'm 99% sure there was a plan at one stage for a extension along those lines to the M6 J7 and a Park and Ride.

I wonder if the announcement of the 2028 Euros will act as a stimulus for getting the metro somewhere near Villa Park?

 

[birchesgreen]

I wonder if the announcement of the 2028 Euros will act as a stimulus for getting the metro somewhere near Villa Park?

Well my extension idea takes the metro along the Lichfield Road and past Aston station.

 

[gg1]

Going north through Aston then along the A38 up to Pype Hayes then up to Sutton Coldfield. Much of the route still has the central reservations from when the trams were there before. Be a great route i am sure, the fact it would go past my house is purely incidental.

Continue the expansion in Wolverhampton and take dozens of cars and buses off the road by running around the ring road and out to the Molineux, then back and out via the Tettenhall road to Tettenhall...

Be a great route I am sure, the fact it would go past my flat is purely incidental.

The best expansion I can see is from Edgbaston along Hagley Road to Quinton and Halesowen.

The fact it would go past my house is.......... you know the rest

I wonder if the announcement of the 2028 Euros will act as a stimulus for getting the metro somewhere near Villa Park?

At the same time as the Villa Park expansion a £30 million rebuild of Witton Station is planned, can't see them doing that and extending the Metro there.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

At the same time as the Villa Park expansion a £30 million rebuild of Witton Station is planned, can't see them doing that and extending the Metro there.

The key word being " planned "

Well my extension idea takes the metro along the Lichfield Road and past Aston station.

Thank you

Sticking with the euros and Villa Park for a moment if they wanted to be innovative there are 2 canals not that far away

Might be alright in June to enjoy a leisurely trip on a barge with a beer, not sure I'd fancy it in winter though!

 

[Farigiraf]

Will the extension to Curzon street actually be worth it with HS2 gone (I know Lon-Birm is still going ahead but it wouldn't have as much usage)? I've also seen in official images from IIRC Birmingham council that show extension to International/Airport, is that just imagining for now or in the plans?

 

[Class172]

Will the extension to Curzon street actually be worth it with HS2 gone (I know Lon-Birm is still going ahead but it wouldn't have as much usage)? I've also seen in official images from IIRC Birmingham council that show extension to International/Airport, is that just imagining for now or in the plans?

The current extension will go as far as Digbeth and is aimed to better connect that area to the network, Curzon St just happens to lie along the route.

 

[gg1]

Will the extension to Curzon street actually be worth it with HS2 gone (I know Lon-Birm is still going ahead but it wouldn't have as much usage)?

Yes. Even if HS2 had been built in it's entirety, the primary destination for anyone travelling to/from Curzon would still be London. Curzon Street to Manchester is still a possibility too even with the latest truncated plan.

 

[MPW]

Going north through Aston then along the A38 up to Pype Hayes then up to Sutton Coldfield. Much of the route still has the central reservations from when the trams were there before. Be a great route i am sure, the fact it would go past my house is purely incidental.

The midlands rail strategy has a proposal to reinstate passenger service along a similar route, though less direct.

Hopefully they can add an on-demand heritage steam branch line to your house.

https://wmre.org.uk/media/aryjxnga/wmre-investment-strategy-and-summary-final.pdf

 

[birchesgreen]

The midlands rail strategy has a proposal to reinstate passenger service along a similar route, though less direct.

Yes i know, not going to hold my breath it will happen anytime soon.

 

[LBGB]

I do often question why the WMM hasn’t developed at the same rate that the Manchester Metrolink has. 14 miles of track in 24 years of operation is terrible. Would love to see it expand to it’s potential and put the idea of ‘sprint buses’ in the bin.

 

[Chester1]

I wonder if the announcement of the 2028 Euros will act as a stimulus for getting the metro somewhere near Villa Park?

Villa Park will host about 9 matches. The challenge to infrastructure isn’t much different to a normal Premier League match day. Its nothing comparable with the Commonwealth Games.

Yes. Even if HS2 had been built in it's entirety, the primary destination for anyone travelling to/from Curzon would still be London. Curzon Street to Manchester is still a possibility too even with the latest truncated plan.

Piccadilly to Curzon Street would require some big work around Colwich Junction and in Stafford to have sufficient paths. Bordesley Chords and 4 terminating platforms and Moor Street would allow all Cross Country services to be diverted from New Street. Faster journeys between UKs second and third cities and lot of extra capacity at New Street for local services might be a better way to spend money than on the Metro.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Villa Park will host about 9 matches. The challenge to infrastructure isn’t much different to a normal Premier League match day.

Fine, but you do hear some horror stories about it and that's before the extension!

 

[Chester1]

Fine, but you do hear some horror stories about it and that's before the extension!

Hopefully there will be some extra public transport provision because of the reputational importance and the matches not involving local fans. However, its not something that would move the dial at all on infrastructure funding.

 

[philosopher]

I do often question why the WMM hasn’t developed at the same rate that the Manchester Metrolink has. 14 miles of track in 24 years of operation is terrible. Would love to see it expand to it’s potential and put the idea of ‘sprint buses’ in the bin.

To me there are two reasons for this. First the ridership from the original line one from Snow Hill to Wolverhampton fell way short of expectations. I think 25 million passengers per year were predicted to use it, but in the end only 5 million passengers a year ended up using it. This probably made it be seen as a bit of white elephant and so made it harder to get funding for additional lines.

Second, Birmingham City Council spent a number of years pursuing an option to extend line 1 via a city centre tunnel, which was never realistically going to get funding, but resulted in the city centre extension being delayed by several years.

 

[JJmoogle]

I do often question why the WMM hasn’t developed at the same rate that the Manchester Metrolink has. 14 miles of track in 24 years of operation is terrible. Would love to see it expand to it’s potential and put the idea of ‘sprint buses’ in the bin.

If they'd worked out like Manchester, some way to hammer through a line across the city from the start when converting some railways, say going through for Wolverhampton to Dorridge instead of terminating at Snow Hill for years I suspect expansion might have been a bit quicker.

As it was for most of my life it was just utterly forgettable as a piece of infrastructure as you'd never see it. The metrolink by comparison was and still is completely unmissable if you go to Manchester, even if you don't use it.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

If they'd worked out like Manchester, some way to hammer through a line across the city from the start when converting some railways, say going through for Wolverhampton to Dorridge instead of terminating at Snow Hill for years I suspect expansion might have been a bit quicker.

As it was for most of my life it was just utterly forgettable as a piece of infrastructure as you'd never see it. The metrolink by comparison was and still is completely unmissable if you go to Manchester, even if you don't use it.

A bit "chicken and egg" that, surely? Metrolink is unmissable in Manchester precisely because it's absolutely everywhere.

I do often question why the WMM hasn’t developed at the same rate that the Manchester Metrolink has. 14 miles of track in 24 years of operation is terrible. Would love to see it expand to it’s potential and put the idea of ‘sprint buses’ in the bin.

I wonder if it's just a matter of timing - it seems these pretty much all public transport infrastructure projects proceed at a snail's pace and come in way over budget, whereas perhaps when Metrolink was being built out, that wasn't the case.

The bigger question is why it's so hard to build major infrastructure these days and have it come in on time / on budget.

West Midlands Metro is definitely not the only system that suffers from this problem!

 

[gg1]

A bit "chicken and egg" that, surely? Metrolink is unmissable in Manchester precisely because it's absolutely everywhere.

The point is thanks to the city centre street running, it was unmissable to many visitors to Manchester from the day it opened. Until the city centre extension was built most visitors to Brum would never know the West Midlands Metro even existed.

 

[SteveM70]

Villa Park will host about 9 matches

That many?

The tournament is 51 games across 10 stadia in 5 countries. The only English ground used from the quarters onwards will be Wembley.

I'd be surprised if Villa Park got more than 5 games

 

[Chester1]

That many?

The tournament is 51 games across 10 stadia in 5 countries. The only English ground used from the quarters onwards will be Wembley.

I'd be surprised if Villa Park got more than 5 games

I was probably getting confused with another stadium! From an infrastructure investment perspective there is no difference between 5 and 9 matches. Both are irrelevant. Casement Park in Belfast is being financed for very specific political reasons, demonstrated by both Westminster and Dublin funding it.

 

[JJmoogle]

The point is thanks to the city centre street running, it was unmissable to many visitors to Manchester from the day it opened. Until the city centre extension was built most visitors to Brum would never know the West Midlands Metro even existed.

Aye cheers, yeah that was my point there.

I would also extend that to planners, staff and residents who's job it is to 'think' about what transport should look like in their area.

 

[Chris 76]

To me there are two reasons for this. First the ridership from the original line one from Snow Hill to Wolverhampton fell way short of expectations. I think 25 million passengers per year were predicted to use it, but in the end only 5 million passengers a year ended up using it. This probably made it be seen as a bit of white elephant and so made it harder to get funding for additional lines.

Second, Birmingham City Council spent a number of years pursuing an option to extend line 1 via a city centre tunnel, which was never realistically going to get funding, but resulted in the city centre extension being delayed by several years.

Yes, the Snow Hill to Wolverhampton line was the easiest metro line to build, as the old Great Western route was there for fairly easy conversion. But it's not a major public transport commuting corridor, passing through post-industrial Black Country towns, not residential commuter suburbs. And it didn't serve any high traffic destinations such as major hospitals or universities.
The lack of a city centre route also held development back; out of sight, out of mind. Nottingham did it right, with the expensive central section as part of phase 1 making further extensions imaginable and cost-effective.
The other obvious limitation on Birmingham's metro development is there are no heavy rail routes ideal for conversion to metro. All Birmingham local heavy rail services share main lines with regional, national and freight trains. The only exception is the North Warwickshire line, which is best kept as part of the Snow Hill lines network. Manchester's Metrolink has developed mainly on existing or disused heavy rail alignments, or through brownfield redevelopment areas in Salford and East Manchester.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Would love to see it expand to it’s potential and put the idea of ‘sprint buses’ in the bin.

Sprint could be decent if done properly - look at Belfast's Glider system for how to do a BRT properly.

With the HS2 phase 2 scrapping and the promise (lol) of money diverted to other regional projects, including the WMM, where do you think that realistic expansion of the network could happen? I have a few thoughts.

• The ending of the line at Edgbaston Village with seemingly no future plans of extension always struck me as very odd. I believe there is a massive scope for extening this down the very busy Hagley Road to the Wolverhampton Road Junction and then turn left down the B4121 all the way down to Northfield and following the A38 to Rubery. All of these roads are wide enough with most of it having large central reservations meaning disruption would be fairly small.
• Reignite the original plan of the Airport Line running from Digbeth onto the rail lines at Small Heath and then onto the A45 towards Sheldon. Then instead of onward to the airport, running up Lode Lane past JLR to Solihull should be feasible too. The roads and buses are always overwhelmed during shift changes there.
• Orbital Line for south/east Birmingham. The city is very hub and spoke, it's easy to get to and from the centre but slow to get across between suburbs. a route connecting the above two lines and to the planned Eastside/Solihull extension running Longbridge-Northfield-Cotteridge-Kings Heath-Hall Green-Acocks Green-Swan-Meadway-Stechford
• Extend the planned Brierley Hill terminus to Stourbridge Junction taking over the Town shuttle.
• Turn the future Y junction at Wednesbury into an X and run to to Walsall with scope to extend to Sutton Coldfield.

Slightly more fantastical.

• Something following the A34 to Great Barr.
• Streetly-Oscott-Castle Vale-Shard End-Chelmsley-HS2 Interchange-Airport-Solihull-Shirley

Your first line is a bit roundabout, but continuing down the A458 all the way to Quinton, then A456 and Grange Road to Halesowen (plus Quinton and the other Hagley Rd communities) would provide a decent tram connection to a town of nearly 60k without any nearby rail connection.
The express bus is timed for nearly 55 mins in peak and the route is 4 lanes the whole way, so an improvement could definitely be made on that time with a tram service.

Your Airport line looks good - not sure how you'd deal with the gyratory on the western edge of Sheldon, but that's a minor issue, plus separate branches to the NEC/Birms Airport and a branch beyond JLR to Solihull town centre and station may be a good idea.

Not sure about the Orbital line; the need is there, but a lot of the roads are too narrow. Why not Sprintify the Outer Circle instead?

I proposed the Stourbridge extension myself once and I wholeheartedly agree.
Wholeheartedly agreed with the Walsall extension too, perhaps extend down the old railway alignment to Brownhills too.

The only other line I could think of would be a line branching off at Bull St tram stop down to Aston/Birmingham City Universities, then down the A47 all the way past StarCity and the Fort Shopping Centre to a terminating loop in Castle Vale.
The roads are very generously proportioned and there's a fair bit of ex industrial land that you could redevelop in the area with flats (thinking of Nechells/Aston mostly), perhaps linking with a new station around the A47/Bromford Lane junction once/if the Sutton Park line gets passenger services.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Sprint could be decent if done properly - look at Belfast's Glider system for how to do a BRT properly.

Your first line is a bit roundabout, but continuing down the A458 all the way to Quinton, then A456 and Grange Road to Halesowen (plus Quinton and the other Hagley Rd communities) would provide a decent tram connection to a town of nearly 60k without any nearby rail connection.
The express bus is timed for nearly 55 mins in peak and the route is 4 lanes the whole way, so an improvement could definitely be made on that time with a tram service.

Your Airport line looks good - not sure how you'd deal with the gyratory on the western edge of Sheldon, but that's a minor issue, plus separate branches to the NEC/Birms Airport and a branch beyond JLR to Solihull town centre and station may be a good idea.

Not sure about the Orbital line; the need is there, but a lot of the roads are too narrow. Why not Sprintify the Outer Circle instead?

I proposed the Stourbridge extension myself once and I wholeheartedly agree.
Wholeheartedly agreed with the Walsall extension too, perhaps extend down the old railway alignment to Brownhills too.

The only other line I could think of would be a line branching off at Bull St tram stop down to Aston/Birmingham City Universities, then down the A47 all the way past StarCity and the Fort Shopping Centre to a terminating loop in Castle Vale.
The roads are very generously proportioned and there's a fair bit of ex industrial land that you could redevelop in the area with flats (thinking of Nechells/Aston mostly), perhaps linking with a new station around the A47/Bromford Lane junction once/if the Sutton Park line gets passenger services.

All good points and I love the Castle Vale idea. I miss the bendy buses on that route.

I don't think making the Outer Circle an express would help tbh. It's called the outer circle but there's a whole load of city outside of it till you get to the city limits.
Connections across the south of Brum in particular aren't great. If you want to get from Longbridge to Solihull your choice is either a 2 hour ride on the 49 or a trip on some of the busiest bits of motorway in Europe. It's often quicker to go all the way into town and back out.

 

[AlastairFraser]

All good points and I love the Castle Vale idea. I miss the bendy buses on that route.

I don't think making the Outer Circle an express would help tbh. It's called the outer circle but there's a whole load of city outside of it till you get to the city limits.
Connections across the south of Brum in particular aren't great. If you want to get from Longbridge to Solihull your choice is either a 2 hour ride on the 49 or a trip on some of the busiest bits of motorway in Europe. It's often quicker to go all the way into town and back out.

Maybe the solution is an orbital express bus in each direction every 15 mins, coming off at each motorway junction.

Something like Birms Airport - A452 (stop in B'ham business park) - A446 - M6 -Castle Brom interchange (build a westbound slip road to the M6 there) - M6 A34 jcn for Great Barr - M5 J1 for West Brom - M5 J2 for Oldbury - M5 J3 for Quinton - M5 J4 for Rubery - M42 J2 for Alvechurch - M42 J4 for Solihull South - M42 J5 for Knowle - Birms Airport (in one direction).
And you could extend existing buses to the junctions as a link i.e. the 63 from Rubery centre to M5 J4.

I think we should make more use of motorway-based semi BRTs in general tbh.