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West Midlands staff escorting enthusiasts away from water Orton and coleshill Parkway stations

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warwickshire

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This morning without a mask but in west Midlands uniform and with a tablet and a enforcement pad a west Midlands trains officer was on water Orton station escorting enthusiasts off the station and the car park. Including the road Bridge from viewing the gbrf gascoigne wood to Newport Simms. Move involving 50049. Today on the 01st march 2021. Prior to 1135 for the departure to Birmingham new Street cross country service. He was overheard speaking to a member off staff getting the 1135 train. That west Midlands trains are getting fed up with enthusiasts at coleshill Parkway and btp have spoken to a few and will not be returning to the station and other stns will now be targeted.
 
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Kite159

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Isn't there someone in Water Orton who dislikes enthusiasts (even going as far as putting up posters saying they are not welcomed?)

Can't see how they can move people on from the road bridge as that's outside railway property

Or am I confusing it with another station?
 

P Binnersley

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This sounds unusual. Trainspotting is currently prohibited (until Mon 8th March) unless your exercise or other permitted activity means you are passing a suitable location at the right time.

West Midlands Trains are perfectly within their rights to ask people not travelling to leave a station, but I can't imaging that anybody who is having face to face dealings with the public wouldn't be wearing a facer mask, even outdoors. Only the Police/PSCOs can issue fixed penalty notices.

The bridge at Water Orton is a public road so a "WMT officer" has no authority. Looking at Google Streetview the "station" car park is run by the local council so is also nothing to do with WMT. Water Orton station is unstaffed so it seems unusual that they would send somebody out to a lightly used station to remove a train spotter. Warwickshire police seem quite keen on issuing fixed penalty notices looking at the local press (but mostly for "gatherings" rather than being away from home) and I would expect them or BTP to deal with any enforcement.

The road bridge at Coleshill Parkway is shown on OS maps as a public footpath, even though it is a private road.

Edit

Was it a current uniform? (Salvation Army receive railway staff uniforms).
 
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warwickshire

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This most certainly did happen at 1130 am this morning and another member off staff got on the train at 1135 to Birmingham new st. From network rail ie a lady and he was telling her at the station entrance whilst walking up to the train with her about coleshill Parkway as well they have had a few enthusiasts there. West Midlands trains are getting sick off them even at the best off times. Hopefully btp who have dealt with them. Means they will never return. Hopefully they might do something to them. However this individual was not wearing a face covering. Himself so also setting a bad example. Can only practice what we preach. However there is a concern that this individual will keep on constantly do this even way into the year and more so after March the 29th. When the message drops. Even if a valid tkt is held.
 

warwickshire

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This sounds unusual. Trainspotting is currently prohibited (until Mon 8th March) unless your exercise or other permitted activity means you are passing a suitable location at the right time.

West Midlands Trains are perfectly within their rights to ask people not travelling to leave a station, but I can't imaging that anybody who is having face to face dealings with the public wouldn't be wearing a facer mask, even outdoors. Only the Police/PSCOs can issue fixed penalty notices.

The bridge at Water Orton is a public road so a "WMT officer" has no authority. Looking at Google Streetview the "station" car park is run by the local council so is also nothing to do with WMT. Water Orton station is unstaffed so it seems unusual that they would send somebody out to a lightly used station to remove a train spotter. Warwickshire police seem quite keen on issuing fixed penalty notices looking at the local press (but mostly for "gatherings" rather than being away from home) and I would expect them or BTP to deal with any enforcement.

The road bridge at Coleshill Parkway is shown on OS maps as a public footpath, even though it is a private road.

Edit

Was it a current uniform? (Salvation Army receive railway staff uniforms).
Yes the new abeillo one. Plus with a staff I'd lanyard
 

221129

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However this individual was not wearing a face covering.
There is no requirement to wear a face covering in open spaces in Enlgand.

So if I am reading this right, a trainspotter was asked to leave from somewhere they shouldn't really have been and is getting upset about it?
 

bengley

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There is no requirement to wear a face covering in open spaces in Enlgand.

So if I am reading this right, a trainspotter was asked to leave from somewhere they shouldn't really have been and is getting upset about it?
There is also no legal requirement for any railway staff to wear face coverings.
 

DB

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Just shows what this country has descended to. What difference does it make to anyone if a train spotter is on an open platform at a fairly minor station? Why are West Midlands Trains "getting sick of them" - provided they don't do anything stupid (and nothing like this is mentioned), what harm are they doing anyone?
 

221129

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There is also no legal requirement for any railway staff to wear face coverings.
Maybe not in England but most (All?) TOCs are requiring it for staff.

Just shows what this country has descended to. What difference does it make to anyone if a train spotter is on an open platform at a fairly minor station? Why are West Midlands Trains "getting sick of them" - provided they don't do anything stupid (and nothing like this is mentioned), what harm are they doing anyone?
There have been numerous issues with spotters not behaving at these stations in the past few years.
 

warwickshire

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There is no requirement to wear a face covering in open spaces in Enlgand.

So if I am reading this right, a trainspotter was asked to leave from somewhere they shouldn't really have been and is getting upset about it?
Yes. So as explained its unsocial behaviour that is the case. So looking like a cause for concern then
 

221129

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Yes. So as explained its unsocial behaviour that is the case. So looking like a cause for concern then
A member of Railway staff asked a trainspotter to leave a location they were not supposed to be in. They weren't wearing a mask which isn't required in that setting. Nothing causing concern so far... The only issue I can see really is the allegation that the member of staff tried to tell people to leave public land (i.e. the bridge).

The tone in the OP and their subsequent posts comes across as that of a disgruntled spotter so perhaps a pinch of salt required with the allegations.
 

bramling

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A member of Railway staff asked a trainspotter to leave a location they were not supposed to be in. They weren't wearing a mask which isn't required in that setting. Nothing causing concern so far... The only issue I can see really is the allegation that the member of staff tried to tell people to leave public land (i.e. the bridge).

The tone in the OP and their subsequent posts comes across as that of a disgruntled spotter so perhaps a pinch of salt required with the allegations.

It does sound like in the case of Water Orton at least there’s a local resident kicking off, like at Acton Bridge. It’s quite plausible there’s someone twitching out of their curtains about trainspotters breaching lockdown rules, and demanding “something be done”. This is then the something.

Unfortunately this whole situation is a gift for people with pre-existing bugbears, like the Acton Bridge couple.
 

221129

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It does sound like in the case of Water Orton at least there’s a local resident kicking off, like at Acton Bridge. It’s quite plausible there’s someone twitching out of their curtains about trainspotters breaching lockdown rules, and demanding “something be done”. This is then the something.

Unfortunately this whole situation is a gift for people with pre-existing bugbears, like the Acton Bridge couple.
Quite possibly, However I am aware there have been various issues with some of the spotters at Water Orton and Nuneaton in the past, so could be a mixture of the two?
 

warwickshire

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It does sound like in the case of Water Orton at least there’s a local resident kicking off, like at Acton Bridge. It’s quite plausible there’s someone twitching out of their curtains about trainspotters breaching lockdown rules, and demanding “something be done”. This is then the something.

Unfortunately this whole situation is a gift for people with pre-existing bugbears, like the Acton Bridge couple.
Agree probably same situation as acton Bridge probably due to behaviour. And issues for residents on the station estate etc. And no gathering is allowed etc. So keeping law and order due to previous issues. Which is different from station to station. Maybe in past weeks something has sparked off on platform. Ie has been mentioned earlier with behaviour issues then.
 

bramling

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Quite possibly, However I am aware there have been various issues with some of the spotters at Water Orton and Nuneaton in the past, so could be a mixture of the two?

Difficult to see what issues could arise at Water Orton (apart from if people are straying beyond limits, in which case that’s a BTP matter), as AIUI the station is unstaffed?

Like Acton Bridge it is quite hemmed in with housing, so there’s the age-old issue of people buying a house adjacent to a public space, and then getting annoyed when they find that space is sometimes used by the public...

If people want privacy then there’s such things as trees, fencing and net curtains, or if that’s not enough don’t buy somewhere next to a place people use. (Having said that, there’s a school near my house and quite often the school mums congregate outside my house for a chinwag in the mornings, which can be a nuisance if I’ve worked something like a night, especially in summer when windows are open. I wouldn’t say anything, though).
 

birchesgreen

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My auntie lives in one of the houses next to the station (one of the houses as you go down to the river), she has never mentioned any issues as above to be honest.
 

bramling

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My auntie lives in one of the houses next to the station (one of the houses as you go down to the river), she has never mentioned any issues as above to be honest.

There definitely was an issue at some point, as I remember seeing photos of a nasty laminated notice. *However*, this might have been the nearby footbridge, not the station.
 

TrainTube

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This sounds unusual. Trainspotting is currently prohibited (until Mon 8th March) unless your exercise or other permitted activity means you are passing a suitable location at the right time.

West Midlands Trains are perfectly within their rights to ask people not travelling to leave a station, but I can't imaging that anybody who is having face to face dealings with the public wouldn't be wearing a facer mask, even outdoors. Only the Police/PSCOs can issue fixed penalty notices.

The bridge at Water Orton is a public road so a "WMT officer" has no authority. Looking at Google Streetview the "station" car park is run by the local council so is also nothing to do with WMT. Water Orton station is unstaffed so it seems unusual that they would send somebody out to a lightly used station to remove a train spotter. Warwickshire police seem quite keen on issuing fixed penalty notices looking at the local press (but mostly for "gatherings" rather than being away from home) and I would expect them or BTP to deal with any enforcement.

The road bridge at Coleshill Parkway is shown on OS maps as a public footpath, even though it is a private road.

Edit

Was it a current uniform? (Salvation Army receive railway staff uniforms).
I dont assume youre lying but could you direct me or highlight what info would suggest its allowed from Monday?
 

Horizon22

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I dont assume youre lying but could you direct me or highlight what info would suggest its allowed from Monday?

I guess its taken from 8th March changes that include - "Rules will on socialising in a public space will be relaxed, meaning one person can sit down with another individual from outside their household"
 

Mojo

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Maybe not in England but most (All?) TOCs are requiring it for staff.
However is this not only in places where such coverings are a legal requirement for customers?
 

P Binnersley

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I dont assume youre lying but could you direct me or highlight what info would suggest its allowed from Monday?
"From 8 March, some of the rules on what you can and cannot do will be changing:

  • you will be allowed to spend time in outdoor public spaces for recreation on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This means you can sit down for a drink or picnic. You must continue to maintain social distance from those outside your household. This is in addition to outdoor exercise, which is already permitted"
From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home

Trainspotting is an outdoor recreation.
 

island

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In most cases, trainspotting will be illegal in England for the time being owing to the prohibition on being away from home without a reasonable excuse.

In England, face coverings are not required to be worn by railway staff, or outdoors.

Whilst TOC staff do not (to my knowledge, and unlike TfL staff) have the right of enforcement of the coronavirus regulations, they can give words of advice to members of the public that they are breaking the law and should go home, and they can inform them they are no longer welcome on Network Rail property, which appears to have been done here.

The only people in this scenario who appear to be acting illegally are the spotters.
 

37424

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So the only concern for me is if they continue to try and enforce it after the covid regulations have been relaxed especially in area's that are public and not railway property.

Its not really any different to those that have been travelling to Beauty Spots and the Beach etc over the sunny weekend and been spoken to by Police.
 

island

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From next week it will still risk falling foul of the rules (that I understand will be in place, though they have not yet been formally published) if there are gatherings of more than two people. Depending on how elastic the definition of “gathering” is.
 

steamybrian

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In most cases, trainspotting will be illegal in England for the time being owing to the prohibition on being away from home without a reasonable excuse.

In England, face coverings are not required to be worn by railway staff, or outdoors.

Whilst TOC staff do not (to my knowledge, and unlike TfL staff) have the right of enforcement of the coronavirus regulations, they can give words of advice to members of the public that they are breaking the law and should go home, and they can inform them they are no longer welcome on Network Rail property, which appears to have been done here.

The only people in this scenario who appear to be acting illegally are the spotters.
I fully agree.
At present while in lockdown the Government message is "....stay at home...". Only go outside for shopping, exercise, medical reasons, etc.
I cannot see how trainspotting fits into any of these categories permitting you to be outside.
 

221129

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However is this not only in places where such coverings are a legal requirement for customers?
Depends on the TOC, mine for example are trying to enforce it at all times when on Railway property, including mess rooms, corridors in train crew accommodation and in non public areas on trains etc.
 

Mojo

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Depends on the TOC, mine for example are trying to enforce it at all times when on Railway property, including mess rooms, corridors in train crew accommodation and in non public areas on trains etc.
Wow, sounds like an awful place to be right now! Feel sorry for you guys.
 
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