What 3 Words

[dosxuk]

Very good marketing team behind them

 

[krus_aragon]

Three words is an interesting gimmick, but that's all it is. To be useful for passing your current location information, you have to have a device that is both capable of determining your GPS location and accessing the Internet...

"Share" button anyone?

"Like" button anyone?

 

[Roast Veg]

I have serious concerns about the what3words change of heart in not open sourcing what should be a universal location system. Publications from some years ago promised that it would become something of an open standard, but no such luck.

 

[87 027]

Apparently recent Android and iPhones can automatically send location data to the emergency services when you dial 999 (or 112 in Europe) using a European standard so What 3 Words is not quite as necessary as is claimed.

http://knowwhereconsulting.co.uk/blog/nine-nine-nine/

"Regulars followers will know that I am skeptical about w3w to say the least, they have done a good job of marketing their version of location codes as a way of verbally communicating location and no doubt there are a few scenarios where that could be useful to some people. But when they try to promote location codes as a life saving service to emergency services I think they stretch too far.

An AML-enabled smartphone recognises when an emergency call is made and, if not already activated, activates the phone’s GNSS to collect the caller’s location information. The handset then sends an automatic SMS to the emergency services with the caller’s location, before turning the GNSS off again. The service can also use Wi-Fi, depending on which is better at a given moment. Please note that AML is not an app.

So why would any emergency service want to encourage people to download w3w when they can hook their call centre into the AML service? Could it be a lack of knowledge or slick sales and marketing from people with an interest in promoting a commercial service?"

 

[EM2]

Apparently recent Android and iPhones automatically send location data to the emergency services when you dial 999 (or 112 in Europe) using a European standard so What 3 Words is unnecessary

And if you're not in Europe?

 

[najaB]

This article popped into my Google News feed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49754820

The most interesting quote which, from my perspective, shows how pointless it can be:

Another of its customers, Robert Ward, detailed how he was trekking with his wife at 4,500 metres in Dingbouch en route to Everest Base Camp.

His wife fell, injuring her head and shoulder, so her husband called the emergency number on their travel insurance documents.

Traveller Assist sent him a message via WhatsApp with a link to download the app, and in less than two minutes their location was identified, and a helicopter sent to transport the couple to hospital in Kathmandu.

So, he had Internet access and WhatsApp. Could I introduce you to:

(image shows screenshot of a smartphone with 'Share Location' highlighted in WhatsApp)

Edit: Thanks to the mod for adding a text alternative. The point I was trying to make was that the traveller quoted in the article already had everything needed to share their location without needing to use W3W.

Moderator note: This thread is now locked; please see the following thread to continue the discussion:

How to provide a location to 999

You say that, but the one time I have called 999 (for an ambulance) the only thing they wanted was a postcode, which is a bit difficult if you're on a canal in a rural area. What I've heard is that it does not accept grid refs. I often go into remote areas on walks, and though I've never had...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[ainsworth74]

Thread re-opened

 

[najaB]

Thread re-opened

Thanks.

Just came across this article which does rather suggest that W3W aren't in this for entirely altruistic reasons:

What3Words sent a legal threat to a security researcher for sharing an open-source alternative | TechCrunch

But the company can't point to a single case of copyright infringement.

techcrunch.com

A company threatening legal action against someone who tried to implement an open source alternative doesn't fill me with warm and fuzzy feelings...

 

[Ediswan]

Just came across this article which does rather suggest that W3W aren't in this for entirely altruistic reasons:

They never have been. W3W has always been a commercial venture. Still making substantial losses.

 

[najaB]

They never have been. W3W has always been a commercial venture. Still making substantial losses.

Oh, I know. But others don't seem to get that rather important point.

 

[etr221]

For some comments on What 3 Words, see here: Why bother with What Three Words?
One issue is that it is a proprietory system - that, as per recent posts, they attempt to keep private. You want to know the name (words) for your location? Only the W3W algorithm (and word list(s)) will tell you? And for someone else to know where that is? The same. If you don't have them, you've no idea...

The other major issue is that - although described as words - the three elements are actually strings of letters, which happen to form words (and are pronounced as such). But if not transmitted and re-entered correctly, you get the wrong place. W3W's response to this is that 'similar' names (sets of words) are sufficiently far apart (and they auto suggest some alternatives). But what has come to light is that there are a lot (and so frequently) pairs of similar names not very far apart: the record is suggested as tone.locals.ruler and tone.local.ruler, only about 10m (0.01 Km!) apart.

See Why What3Words is not suitable for safety critical applications and follow ups here and here. A summary quote is that using w3w is an easy example of “How to get your Position Very Precise and Completely Wrong”

In short, the problem is needing to distinguish greased.toothbrush.work from greased.tooth.brushwork ; gloves.stones.apply from gloves.tones.apply from glove.stones.apply; etc. If they're far apart, and if you realise the problem, it may just be an inconvenience, but if they're not, and you don't ... Hence realising that you do need to distinguish them (and get them right), and having the procedure to do so.

And it is the fall out from that that has triggered the legal threat described in the earlier post.

 

[Ediswan]

For some comments on What 3 Words, see here: Why bother with What Three Words?

The original and genuine problem was navigating to places with no street address, which is much of the world, including many densely poulated areas. Both lat/lon and UTM were already defined globally, supported by any half-decent GPS device. W3W concluded that lot/lon and UTM were 'too difficult' and created their own proprietary system, with its own opportunities for transcription errors.

 

[Roast Veg]

What a mess. Did they pursue legal action against "what three emojis"?

 

[najaB]

What a mess. Did they pursue legal action against "what three emojis"?

I don't know if that exists, but if it doesn't it should! (And probably less likely to cause cross-cultural confusion to boot).

 

[Roast Veg]

https://what3emojis.com/map/ is still active, and open source. The perfect protest of you ask me...

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

I don't know if that exists, but if it doesn't it should! (And probably less likely to cause cross-cultural confusion to boot).

Actually simpler, the room for confusion between whatthreewords in different languages could have some unpleasant consequences.

 

[Geezertronic]

Actually simpler, the room for confusion between whatthreewords in different languages could have some unpleasant consequences.

How does one communicate the Emojis though? Is there an easy way to do that?

 

[najaB]

How does one communicate the Emojis though? Is there an easy way to do that?

You simply describe them in your native language.

 

[Geezertronic]

You simply describe them in your native language.

Not sure how that is easier than words to be honest since the emoji's could be interpreted by different names. I re-visited the website via my laptop and found that if I hovered over the images, it does say the name in some instances (not sure how that works on a mobile device), so if I said the one below you would know where I was referring to?

Dividers Mouse Bank

 

[ComUtoR]

Dividers Mouse Bank

Adria Road, just off the A34

 

[najaB]

Not sure how that is easier than words to be honest since the emoji's could be interpreted by different names. I re-visited the website via my laptop and found that if I hovered over the images, it does say the name in some instances (not sure how that works on a mobile device), so if I said the one below you would know where I was referring to?

Dividers Mouse Bank

You do realise, I hope, that the site is a parody intended to poke holes in the W3W claims of superiority over lat/long, OS grid, etc.?

 

[Geezertronic]

Adria Road, just off the A34

Wrong, it was actually Birmingham International Railway Station

You do realise, I hope, that the site is a parody intended to poke holes in the W3W claims of superiority over lat/long, OS grid, etc.?

I did not realise that

 

[najaB]

I did not realise that

Scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and click on the link in the footer "What3Emojis is a project of the Bad Idea Factory. Made with 100% unobtainium." The Bad Ideas Factory basically throw tech at things and see what sticks. Some of their work is actually quite serious, but most of it is... Well, how useful would you find an Emoji Compass?

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

How does one communicate the Emojis though? Is there an easy way to do that?

Was being slightly sarcastic, but the words used in w3w differ by language (and even different varieties of English), while Emojis don't tend to. So at least you'd be talking about the same thing.

 

[yorkie]

Rescuers question what3words' use in emergencies

Mountain Rescue in England and Wales shows the BBC dozens of wrong addresses it has been given.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mountain rescuers have questioned the accuracy of using a location app, citing dozens of examples where the wrong address was given to their teams.

Examples included:

• jump.legend.warblers which was in Vietnam
• duties.factory.person was located in China
• dignitary.fake.view turned out to be in India
• refuse.housework.housebound was in Australia
• middle.plugged.nourished was in the US
• demand.heave.surprise was actually in Canada
• flesh.unzip.whirlwind was in Russia

Mr Lewis said rescue teams were often left to work out themselves where an address might be in the local area.

There are alternative systems such as OS Locate, a free app provided by Ordnance Survey, that allows people to locate themselves by GPS latitude and longitude co-ordinates as well as altitude, even without a mobile signal.
Sarloc and Phone Finder are tools that have been developed by mountain rescue team members, and these are used whenever possible to obtain an accurate location.

We need to stop handing over taxpayers money to the failure that is What 3 Words!

 

[ABB125]

Rescuers question what3words' use in emergencies

Mountain Rescue in England and Wales shows the BBC dozens of wrong addresses it has been given.

www.bbc.co.uk

We need to stop handing over taxpayers money to the failure that is What 3 Words!

The only time I've tried to use What3Words (in order to find a hot air balloon), it didn't work. I'm not sure why; I think the location it said was within a mile or so of the actual location we needed.
(Admittedly, finding a balloon using a grid reference or even a GPS dot on a map doesn't always work either! )

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Rescuers question what3words' use in emergencies

Mountain Rescue in England and Wales shows the BBC dozens of wrong addresses it has been given.

www.bbc.co.uk

We need to stop handing over taxpayers money to the failure that is What 3 Words!

The majority of positive stories about it are because W3W heavily promote every success story they can in the media.

In reality it's a bloody awful system. You mishear or misspell one word and you could be on the other side of the world.

And, they use thousands of words....

 

[najaB]

In reality it's a bloody awful system. You mishear or misspell one word and you could be on the other side of the world.

Which they try to sell as a virtue of the system:

Similar sounding 3 word locations are typically far away from each, so we can use your location to intelligently guess where you meant. With street addresses, similar sounding addresses are near enough to each other that it can be very confusing, and often leads to huge delays whilst people work out what has gone wrong and what the right address actually is.

What happens if I make a mistake when entering a what3words address?

If you make a mistake when entering a what3words address, don’t worry: our system is designed to help you recognise and correct errors. After entering...

support.what3words.com

But that's not actually a strength. If someone gives me a W3W address and it's on the other side of the world, all I know for sure is where that person is not. As they then go on to say, from there it's a guessing game - which of the words was wrong? As the BBC article linked above says, there are numerous examples of similar W3W addresses that are plausibly close to each other.

As the Yanks would say "They should have stayed in their lane." W3W is useful for non-critical applications, but they should stop trying to force their way into the safety of life arena.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

To use an example: permeating curled retrievers, try saying that down a bad phone line... You'll be lucky if you're not reduced to spelling it out with the phonetic alphabet...

Compared to Ordinance Survey:
"My Grid reference is November-Sierra, One-two-three, Four-five-six."

"Recieved, [Reads back grid ref]"

Job done.

 

[The Ham]

To use an example: permeating curled retrievers, try saying that down a bad phone line... You'll be lucky if you're not reduced to spelling it out with the phonetic alphabet...

Compared to Ordinance Survey:
"My Grid reference is November-Sierra, One-two-three, Four-five-six."

"Recieved, [Reads back grid ref]"

Job done.

There are times when it's useful.

My mother in law was a nurse in the community in a mostly rural area, they would write (well Type) onto the notes the three words so other staff could find the right house on the right but if country lane without having to drive for a mile at 15mph as it's somewhere here and it's not easy to turn around if we sail past it (some lanes it's not easy to reverse up either).

Could it be better, certainly. However I would say that there are cases where it does work well. Like all things it's a tool and like all tools it's not foolproof.

Given that most emergency calls on the UK are from phones and people stay on the line, it shouldn't be too hard to recheck words of they flag up as clearly wrong.

Whilst it would be better if everyone knew how to read a map sometimes you've not got that clear an idea of exactly where you are and so a rough grid reference followed up with a W3W reference would give you a rough guide even if the W3W was wrong. However if it's right it would save a lot of searching, which if it's foggy or other low visibility situation can be very time consuming.