aspierail
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Do you think that the Stansted Express train should run non stop between London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport or not.
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What do you think of my suggestion for Stansted Express to run non-stop?
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gazthomas
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Searle
Established Member
No, Tottenham Hale is a very useful interchange for the service and should still be stopped at. With a limited number of paths up the WAML, I think it's a good idea that it stops at Bishop's Stortford and Harlow Town, to serve the towns. If the WAML was extended to four tracks, at least as far as Broxbourne, then a non stop service would be viable
Same could be said about the Gatwick Express not really getting up to much until after East Croydon half way through it's journey. The Gatwick gets minus points as well for only being 3 minutes quicker than the cheaper Southern/FCC services. At one point it even had a Thameslink service that beat it there from London by 1 minute!
The only 'true' airport express is the Heathrow Express, as it's 100mph and the stopping service takes considerably longer.
dk1
Veteran Member
Loadings are often poor without omitting Stortford or Harlow & Tottenham Hale is a very useful interchange. Stansted Airport had a small growth last month after over a year of falling passenger numbers.
Aictos
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Surely any name change with the existing service ought to be Stansted Connect then maybe if 4 tracking was ever done you could have Stansted Express as non stop between airport and Liverpool Street and Stansted Connect for the existing service which stops at stations on route.
GatwickDepress
Established Member
Stansted Connect is certainly more honest than Express. Doubt four-tracking would ever happen in the foreseeable future due to low passenger numbers though.
Not so sure about that, 60mph is a lot quicker than 30-40mph!
Well, Thameslink is a brand name of some FCC operated services, and Gatwick Express is a brand name of some Southern operated services, so there's a bit of confusion there! But I completely agree with you that the name "express" is very misleading for both Gatwick and Stansted Express brand names.
The brand names also cause unnecessary confusion as sometimes people think that they are TOCs. I have no problem with them using the brand names in a low-key way, as FCC does with it's Cambridge Express, which is a bona-fide express unlike the other two!
Which is in fact the renamed "Cambridge Cruiser" service..........
I don't see the point of running airport "express" services. Most people don't use airports on a daily basis, so the time saved per person is minimal per year. In addition, people usually allow a lot of time before and after flights anyway, so 10 minutes shaved is probably nothing compared to the three hours before check-in / the important meeting.
It's surely just a marketing tool to tempt foreign travellers into the most expensive trains?
Particularly in the case of the Heathrow or Gatwick services, it's amazing how many people from abroad will just assume that because it has 'Express' in the title it is the best way to get from the airport to anywhere in London (eg Heathrow - Bloomsbury)
Quite possibly! I will admit to using the Heathrow Express a few years ago, but I wasn't paying, the bank of mother was, and I'd offered the alternatives but she went for what she felt the quickest/simplest. Which I also think might be part of the draw of 'Express' airport services.
I actually think that the way Manchester is served is much better than any other dedicated 'Express' service. Throughout the day [stn]MIA[/stn] has about eight or nine trains per hour to Manchester with only two taking more than twenty minutes and six or seven of them offering direct services to Manchester, Leeds, Huddersfield, York, Sheffield, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Scotland, Carlisle, Liverpool and so on. Much more useful than a dedicated 'Manchester Airport Express' would be.
With that in mind I think that Stansted's current provision is probably about spot on to be honest. If there was the capacity there could be case made for running a Stansted - Tottenham Hale - Liverpool Street as the 'Express' at maybe hourly or half-hourly frequency with the rest running the current semi-fast stopping pattern.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
it should run 24hrs a day
This is probably what our foreign friends believe too!
I agree. Though at the same time I cna see why BR introduced the Gatwick Express - in those days it was more to take the airline passengers and their luggage off the commuter trains from the south coast.
Then the concept of charging apremium fare kicked in, and privatisation/competition has made the position worse. The fact is that if you are travelling towards the Tower of London area, and a lot of hotels have been springing up on the south side of Tower Bridge over the last few years, then you don't want to go anywhere near Victoriam you are better off going to London Bridge. Yet I'll warrant that large numbers of tourists are going to Victoria and then getting the tube or a black cab on to their real destination!
I'll let others form their own opinion on how desirable this is!
Manchester77
Established Member
In that case the only true airport service as mentioned above is FTPE from MAN to MIA which operate through out the night and from MAN only call at HDG or in the case of north transpennine, none stop MAN-MIA
Of all the Express airport trains, HEX is the only one I'd regard as a true express service - and since the refurbishment, they're quite amazing trains (especially in first class, although that's way too expensive if you're paying!).
Yes, HEX is expensive but is a lot quicker than the alternatives. I prefer Heathrow Connect if I have enough time to spare, but given the 2tph frequency and the 30 minute journey time, it's possible to arrive as one train is leaving (if coming by tube where you only need a few Met line trains back to back to throw you) you are suddenly looking at the best part of an hour.
And the tube option - well, you need to leave the day before!
For Gatwick, GatEx is pretty pointless unless you like the rolling stock and having it all to yourself.. and Stansted Express is pretty much a normal service that happens to call at the airport. Stansted Connect would make more sense.
Yes, HEX is expensive but is a lot quicker than the alternatives. I prefer Heathrow Connect if I have enough time to spare, but given the 2tph frequency and the 30 minute journey time, it's possible to arrive as one train is leaving (if coming by tube where you only need a few Met line trains back to back to throw you) you are suddenly looking at the best part of an hour.
And the tube option - well, you need to leave the day before!
For Gatwick, GatEx is pretty pointless unless you like the rolling stock and having it all to yourself.. and Stansted Express is pretty much a normal service that happens to call at the airport. Stansted Connect would make more sense.
If you are saying what I think you are saying, take the Met [from King's Cross St Pancras] to Baker St if that's the first train. Then take the tube from there. You want to be roughly in the middle of the train, perhaps the front or middle of the 4th coach (Met trains are 8 coaches). The steps to the Bakerloo are then nearby, and the tube from there to Paddington is very frequent and very quick. That is quicker than taking sub-surface all the way, if the first two are Met trains.
Another option is to go entirely by deep level tube, changing at Oxford Circus. It's longer, but far more frequent. Only recommended at quiet times!
Manchester77
Established Member
Stansted Shuttle perhaps?
I agree that Heathrow Express is the only service to deserve the title of 'express'. It's such a shame that so many people flying into the UK think it goes to London
hehe - yeah, although Paddington isn't that bad. It's not far away from a lot of hotels and it's pretty easy to get to a lot of places via the Circle line (or H&C line for eastbound travel) and central London via Bakerloo. Not necessarily extremely quick, but not totally terrible.
The new taxi rank also seems to be making it quicker to get a cab for the 'final mile' for those with luggage.
I've done that when I was really in a rush and can confirm that it works very well, but there's always the nightmare scenario where you get down to the Bakerloo line and the next train is 7 minutes or something. Or the trains are really crowded, or you've got large bags to lug about.
The Victoria/Bakerloo option is viable too - but with the same risk as the Bakerloo line doesn't seem to have as frequent a service as the Victoria Line.
Despite having a range of options, which is useful if there's disruption or engineering work, a straight one-train option from KGX to PAD is still favourable. Now, given there is an actual timetable in operation on the underground, I suppose the best option is to try and make sure to get onto the platform in time for the next H&C train!
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Aictos
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It might take a hour from Kings Cross St Pancras but I always use the Piccadilly line as its direct, inexpensive and if you miss one service then it's only a minute or three before the next one plus changing at Hatton Cross isn't that much of a drag.
The tube option is cheapest (free with a TC!) but I just can't bring myself to using it. Perhaps that's because when I lived in Enfield, I used it many times and it felt like it took all day from Oakwood or Cockfosters.
Clearly from KGX, it's not as bad but I think I've been psychologically scarred for life!!
Clearly from KGX, it's not as bad but I think I've been psychologically scarred for life!!
GatwickDepress
Established Member
It's just a pity it's so reliable really. Then I'd finally be able to justify calling it the "Standstill Express".
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
The same is true of Birmingham, [stn]BHI[/stn] has 10+ services per hour to New Street, plus five trains an hour to London, direct trains into mid Wales and XC services to the south coast, the north west/north east and the occasional train into Scotland.
I'm not sure any of the airports which serve London are really in a position to do that simply because of geography though. Luton is probably the best of a bad bunch.
I think similar comments could be applied to the "express" services between Glasgow Queen Street and Edinburgh. When I lived in Scotland in the early 1980s, one train per hour ran non stop from Glasgow Queen Street to Haymarket, and the other made an additional stop at Falkirk High. Now there are four trains per hour, all of which stop at Falkirk High and also make additional stops at Polmont, Linlithgow and Croy.
If you tried to remove some of the stops on Falkirk , Linlithgow, Polmont or Croy to speed up the service I suspect there would be a lot of complaints.
Similarly with the Stansted Express, the stops at Harlow and Bishops Stortford provide useful connections to the airport for people travelling from Hertfordshire and Essex, who probably form a significant proportion of the airport's customer base.
If you tried to remove some of the stops on Falkirk , Linlithgow, Polmont or Croy to speed up the service I suspect there would be a lot of complaints.
Similarly with the Stansted Express, the stops at Harlow and Bishops Stortford provide useful connections to the airport for people travelling from Hertfordshire and Essex, who probably form a significant proportion of the airport's customer base.
NSE
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Also by stopping the trains at Bishops Stortford and Harlow, it removes the need for a local service to run from these stations to the Airport. I think it makes perfect sense, it is a limited stop service so I would still consider it an express, and it is designed to take luggage for the airport passengers, but it also caters for commuters who make up the most part of the users of that line.
306024
Established Member
Thank you NSE - you beat me to it but that is indeed the thinking. As always there is a balance to be struck given the limited capacity of the route, Harlow and Stortford are important too.
Of course when there is a second runway, and Boris has taken over the inner suburban routes, and we have 4 tracking on the Lea Valley, and a second line through the airport tunnel, things may be a little different. Until then .........
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