What Happened to TPE's 350403?

[RealTrains07]

Iam surprised the first one 350/401 is going tomorrow. Didnt think i would see any of them go until end of summer at the earliest

 

[Bovverboy]

Is a 397 entering service in replacement?

 

[James Kevill]

Is a 397 entering service in replacement?

Yes, but they won't enter the services yet until autumn. Unless another second handed electric trains would take over.

 

[driver9000]

The only difference is first class right? Or have the 350/4 not had the tpe refurbishment??

No they haven't been refurbished. There are a few differences between /4s and /3s. An extra toilet and catering area in the /4 being the most obvious. 350/4s also have Speed set which the /3s don't have (or didn't have when new).

 

[driver9000]

Is a 397 entering service in replacement?

No, 350403 is replacing 350401. The first 397 was only handed over to TPE on Thursday.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why would it need remembering? The layout of the /4 units is very similar to the existing lnwr/3 units

[Renumbering?]
IIRC LM numbered the other three batches so that they had unique last two digits, ie sequentially across their 3 batches. I guess people are thinking that if that made sense before, it might still do so.

 

[433N]

I'm missing something.

Is summer generally a time when there is a lull in demand for trains to Manchester Airport and TPE can get away with being short of units ?

Or do TPE intend to make more use of 185s on Scotland - Manchester Airport services until the 397s come along ?

 

[notlob.divad]

I'm missing something.

Is summer generally a time when there is a lull in demand for trains to Manchester Airport and TPE can get away with being short of units ?

Or do TPE intend to make more use of 185s on Scotland - Manchester Airport services until the 397s come along ?

It was noted i think in the Trans Pennine North upgrade presentation that Summer is generally quieter for TPE because Universities are on summer holidays. So whilst trips to Manchester airport may increase, due to package holiday travellers, these will be one return trip during the summer as opposed to twice daily commuters of workers, staff and students, that fill the trains for the rest of the year.

 

[driver9000]

I'm missing something.

Is summer generally a time when there is a lull in demand for trains to Manchester Airport and TPE can get away with being short of units ?

Or do TPE intend to make more use of 185s on Scotland - Manchester Airport services until the 397s come along ?

The arrival of 403 and the departure of 401 leaves the same number of units available. There are still 9 of 350/4s available for TPE to use. It's tight but by not running the 8 coach trains operated until last November when 403 had its accident it can be done.

 

[Class 170101]

I'm missing something.

Is summer generally a time when there is a lull in demand for trains to Manchester Airport and TPE can get away with being short of units ?

Or do TPE intend to make more use of 185s on Scotland - Manchester Airport services until the 397s come along ?

It was noted i think in the Trans Pennine North upgrade presentation that Summer is generally quieter for TPE because Universities are on summer holidays. So whilst trips to Manchester airport may increase, due to package holiday travellers, these will be one return trip during the summer as opposed to twice daily commuters of workers, staff and students, that fill the trains for the rest of the year.

I thought TPE might keep the Class 350s until the end of the Fringe festival in Edinburgh. I seem to recall that the 350/3s entered service with TPE first before going to London Midland as they used them to strengthen services to Edinburgh the summer the Class 350/3s entered service.

 

[Bovverboy]

The arrival of 403 and the departure of 401 leaves the same number of units available. There are still 9 of 350/4s available for TPE to use. It's tight but by not running the 8 coach trains operated until last November when 403 had its accident it can be done.

But what's happened to all the passengers? I can remember 350s being doubled up on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays (not all journeys, of course) and them running uncomfortably full.

 

[433N]

But what's happened to all the passengers? I can remember 350s being doubled up on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays (not all journeys, of course) and them running uncomfortably full.

This is what I wondered too.

2 or 3 years ago, many services would be 2x350 and heavily used and even then there was the odd 185 thrown in to keep up capacity. Now, I very rarely see either 2x350s or 185s and to run with 9 units must be stretching capacity to the limit unless passengers have disappeared. Perhaps they fell off when they were hanging out of the doors !

 

[Jamesrob637]

I thought TPE might keep the Class 350s until the end of the Fringe festival in Edinburgh. I seem to recall that the 350/3s entered service with TPE first before going to London Midland as they used them to strengthen services to Edinburgh the summer the Class 350/3s entered service.

Pardon me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the Commonwealth games Glasgow summer 2014?

 

[BeHereNow]

So on the same day Boris is announcing a new rail line with more capacity, TransPennine Express are releasing stock back to the operator to save money; rather than use it for extra capacity or resilience.

 

[37057]

So on the same day Boris is announcing a new rail line with more capacity, TransPennine Express are releasing stock back to the operator to save money; rather than use it for extra capacity or resilience.

Didn't realise 350s went to Leeds!

 

[BeHereNow]

Didn't realise 350s went to Leeds!

?

Fewer Class 350s means more 185s covering, means more short forms.

 

[Bovverboy]

I have checked back to July 2015 and find that the standard formations at the time were as follows.

Fridays
Edinburgh: 3 DBL350, 1 SGL350
Glasgow: 2 SGL350, 2 SGL185

Saturdays
Edinburgh: 2 DBL350, 2 SGL350
Glasgow: 3 SGL350, 1 SGL185

Sundays
Edinburgh: 3 DBL350, 1 DBL185
Glasgow: 3 SGL350, 1 SGL185

Dropping the Wigan stop in favour of Northern would have no doubt culled a few numbers, but not enough to merit the close on 50% drop in capacity (on Edinburghs), I'm sure.

Incidentally, could anyone tell me why the Manchester to Edinburgh services are so much busier than those to Glasgow? This is something I've never understood, I mean, for instance, Virgin run far more trains to Glasgow than Edinburgh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So on the same day Boris is announcing a new rail line with more capacity, TransPennine Express are releasing stock back to the operator to save money; rather than use it for extra capacity or resilience.

Much as it'll be welcome down South (that First Class!) I think TPE are utterly mad releasing 350s before the WCML EMUs are in service.

 

[Bovverboy]

Pardon me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the Commonwealth games Glasgow summer 2014?

It was indeed, but the hiring of LM 350s does rather make the point that rolling stock is always available, if you want it badly enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IIncidentally, could anyone tell me why the Manchester to Edinburgh services are so much busier than those to Glasgow? This is something I've never understood, I mean, for instance, Virgin run far more trains to Glasgow than Edinburgh.

Because Edinburgh has higher demand than Glasgow, particularly from tourism. If you look at the "via Birmingham" VTWC trains that extend alternately to Glasgow and Edinburgh, the Edinburgh ones are invariably much busier.

VT's fast Scottish service indeed goes to Glasgow, but that's because the ECML primarily serves London-Edinburgh.

I don't know about paths but I could see an argument to run the whole Manchester service to Edinburgh, there's 1.5tph of VTs to connect into for Glasgow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was indeed, but the hiring of LM 350s does rather make the point that rolling stock is always available, if you want it badly enough.

I doubt any LNR 350s would be forthcoming - they are far more intensely used than they were. Though having said that demand for commuters is lower during the holidays (probably about 2/3 if you take into account that most people will take a 2-week holiday somewhere in the 6-week holiday period) and so some 12 to 8 short-forms wouldn't kill anyone.

 

[37057]

?

Fewer Class 350s means more 185s covering, means more short forms.

How many times a week do 185s actually cover for the Scottish services since November 18?

 

[MDB1images]

How many times a week do 185s actually cover for the Scottish services since November 18?

A diagram is booked Saturday/Sunday (Glasgow from memory-, certainly ends up in Glasgow on Sat night) other than that only if a unit fails and no Class 350 available.

 

[MDB1images]

A diagram is booked Saturday/Sunday (Glasgow from memory-, certainly ends up in Glasgow on Sat night) other than that only if a unit fails and no Class 350 available.

Just to add that Weekend Class 185 diagram was in place before 350403 was damaged so not related.

 

[BeHereNow]

only if a unit fails and no Class 350 available.

Which happens quite a lot when you use 8 out of 9 units per day.

 

[Class 170101]

Pardon me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the Commonwealth games Glasgow summer 2014?

It was indeed, but the hiring of LM 350s does rather make the point that rolling stock is always available, if you want it badly enough.

I understood it did both. The Games in Glasgow to which you refer was first I believe they then did the Fringe after that through the summer.

 

[Bovverboy]

A diagram is booked Saturday/Sunday (Glasgow from memory-, certainly ends up in Glasgow on Sat night) other than that only if a unit fails and no Class 350 available.

If a 185 ends up in Glasgow on a Saturday night (but, generally, we presume, not on other nights) the implication is that there is still a diagram on either a Saturday or Sunday which uses a double 350 - otherwise, there would be no need to use a 185 on a regular basis, as described.

Just to add that Weekend Class 185 diagram was in place before 350403 was damaged so not related.

For details of how many 185s used to be used on the Scottish services, see post #47, above.

 

[Greybeard33]

So on the same day Boris is announcing a new rail line with more capacity, TransPennine Express are releasing stock back to the operator to save money; rather than use it for extra capacity or resilience.

Did TPE have any choice but to release the unit? As I understand it WMT is now leasing all the 350/4s from Angel Trains and generously sub-leasing them to TPE until the delayed 397s enter service.

Presumably WMT took the view that TPE could continue to make do with 9 units, as it has been doing since the accident to 403.

The situation is reminiscent of TPE's loss of its 170s to Chiltern a few years ago, when no replacement stock was available.

 

[DarloRich]

There is a tpe livered 350 at Bletchley depot according to street word

 

[507021]

There is a tpe livered 350 at Bletchley depot according to street word

350401.