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What is PPM?

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pne

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What does PPM mean in reference to rail franchises? (Preferably: both "what does the abbreviation stand for?" and "how does the concept behind the abbreviation work, i.e. how is the number calculated and who uses it for what purposes, and what are the consequences if the number has certain values?").

Also, is there a glossary thread somewhere which explains this and other common abbreviations such as TOC, ROSCO, and tph? (I think I know what those are.)
 
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andyb2706

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PPM stands for Public Performance Minutes which is set by the government/ORR and basically it means that if a train reaches its destination within that time frame the train can be classed as "on time" and no financial penalties are made.

Also it may state that a TOC has a target of getting 90% of its train within PPM.

For example Virgin Trains West Coast has to be no later than 10 minutes off it's schedule to meet its PPM target. So say a London to Piccadilly is booked to arrive at Piccadilly at 1000 and arrives at 1009 this means the train has met its PPM, however should the train arrive at 1011 it has failed to meet its PPM.

All TOC's PPM's are different, another example is Northern Trains is no later than 5 minutes to meet its PPM.

The rule of thumb, although not always the case is that long distance trains have to be with in 10 minutes to meet their PPM while local commuter services is 5 minutes. Surely there is somewhere on the web to look for the actual PPM figures for all the TOC's

Now don't get me started on the FOC's, they also have PPM to meet but that is a total nightmare to work out and I think you need a degree in quantum physics to work that one out!

Also TOC is Train Operating Company (Virgin, Northern etc.) , FOC is Freight Operating Company (Direct Rail Services, Freightliner etc.) ROSCO is Rolling Stock Operating Company these are the companies that actually own the trains who the TOC/FOC lease the trains from and tph is train per hour, usually used to say how many trains can travel between point A and point B.
Hope this helps.
 
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Greenback

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I had to get two 'P's in there, but it could easily be permanent or perpetual instead :lol:
 

TheEdge

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PPM is the most awful and complex and unnecessary system ever invented by anyone anywhere. It leads to one of the most irritating situations on the railways, that being delaying on time trains to allow "late" trains to be on time according to PPM.

So a train that is on time (in the traditional sense) will be made late (in the traditional sense) to allow a train which is late (in the traditional sense) to run ahead delaying both services but then on paper rather than one on time train and one PPM failure they have two delayed trains but neither has failed PPM.

LOGIC!
 

455driver

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Public performance measure.

It so we can see how long the trains are delayed while the commuters all use the one door while ignoring the other 15 doors because they are further away from the station entrance/ exit! <D;)
 

Clip

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Public performance measure.

It so we can see how long the trains are delayed while the commuters all use the one door while ignoring the other 15 doors because they are further away from the station entrance/ exit! <D;)

Did you get a nice new stop watch and clipboard to record these? I believe its a requirement in 2015 to show commuters they are a bit thick even if they do work in the city ;)
 

pne

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PPM is the most awful and complex and unnecessary system ever invented by anyone anywhere. It leads to one of the most irritating situations on the railways, that being delaying on time trains to allow "late" trains to be on time according to PPM.

So a train that is on time (in the traditional sense) will be made late (in the traditional sense) to allow a train which is late (in the traditional sense) to run ahead delaying both services but then on paper rather than one on time train and one PPM failure they have two delayed trains but neither has failed PPM.

Oh dear!

I can see how that would aid the railway, but I can also see how that would be annoying for passengers.
 

maniacmartin

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Another flaw in PPM is that I believe it only applies to the very final destination of a service.

Let's say there's a hypothetical train from London to Newcastle, calling at Peterborough, Doncaster and York en route. It could be 15 minutes late at those intermediate stations, but would still class as fully on time if it was on time at Newcastle. Cue TOCs adding some minutes of padding at the end of services to manipulate PPM.
 
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Mugby

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Public performance measure.

It so we can see how long the trains are delayed while the commuters all use the one door while ignoring the other 15 doors because they are further away from the station entrance/ exit! <D;)

'One Door Syndrome' was how I heard a conductor describe this affliction.

It seems to be the safety in numbers concept, no one dare step away from the pack for fear of being isolated/missing something.
 

Tomnick

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Oh dear!

I can see how that would aid the railway, but I can also see how that would be annoying for passengers.
On the other hand, though, two slightly late trains might allow everyone to make their intended onward connections, whereas one right-time and one significantly late perhaps wouldn't. As always, though, regulating decisions like that are far from simple!
 

LBSCR Times

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Another flaw in PPM is that I believe it only applies to the very final destination of a service.

Except on Thameslink....
The north side and south side are counted separate.
So, a Brighton to Bedford cancellation is counted as two failures.
Hence why too, if there is late running, it will be run fast on one side to enable it to be right time on the other side, thus only failing once!
 

Sanatogen

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On the other hand, though, two slightly late trains might allow everyone to make their intended onward connections, whereas one right-time and one significantly late perhaps wouldn't. As always, though, regulating decisions like that are far from simple!


Throw *CaSL into the mix for more regulating fun.

*cancellation and significant lateness.
 

Yabbadabba

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P*** Poor Move for when the regulating decision didn't have the desired outcome. :D
 

Jonny

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PPM is the most awful and complex and unnecessary system ever invented by anyone anywhere. It leads to one of the most irritating situations on the railways, that being delaying on time trains to allow "late" trains to be on time according to PPM.

So a train that is on time (in the traditional sense) will be made late (in the traditional sense) to allow a train which is late (in the traditional sense) to run ahead delaying both services but then on paper rather than one on time train and one PPM failure they have two delayed trains but neither has failed PPM.

LOGIC!

George Orwell would be proud - it's a similar logic to claiming that 2 + 2 = 5 (which can be fiddled by taking advantage of the fact that anything from 1.5 to 2.49 rounds to 2, so go into reverse, get 2.49, add another 2.49 which gives 4.98 and rounding up to one significant figure). All this going on while the truth is that 2+2 =4 where 2 is precisely 2. Or, as wikipedia puts it,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_+_2_=_5
The phrase "two plus two equals five" ("2 + 2 = 5") is a slogan used in many different forms of media, but more specifically in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four[1] as an example of an obviously false dogma one may be required to believe, similar to other obviously false slogans by the Party in the novel. It is contrasted with the phrase "two plus two makes four", the obvious (by definition) — but politically inexpedient — truth.
 

185

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Cue TOCs adding some minutes of padding at the end of services to manipulate PPM.

Including Arriva Trains Wales where their padding was so much the incoming train arrived after it's return working departed on the Bidstons.
 

67018

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PPM is the most awful and complex and unnecessary system ever invented by anyone anywhere. It leads to one of the most irritating situations on the railways, that being delaying on time trains to allow "late" trains to be on time according to PPM.

So a train that is on time (in the traditional sense) will be made late (in the traditional sense) to allow a train which is late (in the traditional sense) to run ahead delaying both services but then on paper rather than one on time train and one PPM failure they have two delayed trains but neither has failed PPM.

LOGIC!

Or, alternatively, that someone's decided that two slightly late trains are better than one on time and one more significantly delayed. Since it makes it more likely that both trains can be on time for their return journey, there's less chance of passengers missing connections and less risk of knock-on delays due to displaced crew.

Might not work like that, of course, but I don't see why it should be dismissed so easily.
 

Bald Rick

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AIUI the 5 mins measure came from research that BR did in the NSE days which demonstrated that passengers view a delay of up to 5 mins as tolerable, but place a surprisingly large value on each additional minute above that.

And to be fair, that's consistent with how I feel. 4-5mins delay is a mild inconvenience, but once past 6 min it feels like I'm late.

Fairly sure that the move to 10mins for long distance services happened around 1992.
 

kieron

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Including Arriva Trains Wales where their padding was so much the incoming train arrived after it's return working departed on the Bidstons.
They still do. It's more to do with the passenger timetable being based on the performance of a different train to the one which is used now (so the train usually runs a couple of minutes late through some of the stops day in day out) and there not being much slack in the working timetable (which has been updated). If there's any sort of issue which slows the train down, the second issue will mean this results in regular PPM failures until it's resolved, and probably until they cancel a train or two north of Shotton.
Or, alternatively, that someone's decided that two slightly late trains are better than one on time and one more significantly delayed.
Sometimes actions to avoid a PPM failure are good overall. Sometimes they are bad overall. The interesting question is whether the people whose choices affect the chance of a train failing PPM (mostly signallers, I'd imagine) care whether or not it fails it.
 

455driver

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Sometimes actions to avoid a PPM failure are good overall. Sometimes they are bad overall. The interesting question is whether the people whose choices affect the chance of a train failing PPM (mostly signallers, I'd imagine) care whether or not it fails it.
If only, its much more likely to be some berk in 'control' who doesnt know one end of a train from the other!<D
 

grid56126

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If only, its much more likely to be some berk in 'control' who doesnt know one end of a train from the other!<D

However tongue in cheek your remark may have been, with me tonight are:

An ex driver (5 years up front).

A 28 year career railwayman who started as a dispatcher (junior railman I guess) who moved up to station shunter, depot shunter, ticket clerk and then station supervisor.

Another long term station manager who was involved in ops side and rules training and was then a revenue manager.

There is a younger guy who is a "crank" and is second man on a preserved line

(those were the controllers)

On the fleet side I have an ex RSI and a long term fleet planner turned very good daily planner.

On the NR side of things There is an ex MOM and an ex S&T section engineer (no idea what the grades are) Their Train running controllers give you an ex signaller and a bloke who I respect the most with similar years of service to me who started on the platforms and worked hi way up to being one of the most experienced creators of schedules in real time I know and his understanding of timetables is staggering.

I am in my 32nd year "on the job" and have mostly worked in "information" roles at stations / control, A few years as a hands on controller and now shift manager. I have very close (I mean very close) to a million recorded rail miles under my belt and to the annoyance of nearly everyone that will read this I am a qualified assessor and have been passed in HR procedures - So yes I am afraid I am as close to "Middle Management" as you could possibly tolerate!

If you are still reading this far down can I ask that you speak to your line manager ans ask for a visit. We are now in the quietest time for drivers Annual Leave and had spare drivers turns on the board at every depot on Friday so I am sure something could be sorted.

We show visitors round and answer HONESTLY all questions put to us on a weekly basis, the only proviso is that if we are busy you make us the tea instead of the other way round.

GENUINE OFFER
 

carriageline

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To be honest, the control i deal with are great.

But I have heard stories, the best one being (on another route this is) a broken rail with single line working going around it. Quite a long section due to lack of crossovers. Someone drops a clanger and pilotman is at the wrong end for the next train, que a delay while he drives the 30-45 minute drive to the other end.

Control then ring up, questioning why he hasn't entered the single section yet as the previous left a while ago, only to be told of the circumstances, and to get quite a stern reply.

"What? Why is there only one pilotman, why isn't there one at each end?"

Stories like that don't help the cause unfortunately! There are some brilliant ones out there, and some not so brilliant. The same can be said about ALL grades thought
 

grid56126

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I absolutely agree. I have worked in CONtrol with the good the bad and the ugly. There are however way to many misconceptions about what "we" do and how we manipulate what we do do fiddle PPM and delay minutes.

"I Wish", is my standard reply.

I tend not to have too much time for that in and amongst the nitty gritty of running a SAFE railway first, then a punctual and fully staffed (Fleet / satations / Crews) amidst all of the infrastructure worries, the passengers and recovery thereof (buses (including the RTAs the become involved in), taxis, connections other operators), the getting the information right (CIS, Websites, media), CCTV monitoring, CCTV profiling, Facebook and of course the ever present Twitter that needs monitoring - oh the weather, trespass, fatals, aircraft with dodgy landing gear.

We do look at PPM (constantly!), we do look at delay minutes as well but the times that we make decisions based "because" of either are remarkably low. Mostly because if we get whatever the problem is sorted as quickly as we can, the PPM will recover quicker. Only on a day where trains are running very reliably with no incidents do we tend to get involved in making tiny tweaks to get trains in on time over another. These tend to be days that are 90% + and when we have time to intervene. It is a misconception that when the service plummets to a horrendous state that we spend all our time looking to deliberately turn trains short, cancel them or skip stops just to improve PPM or save minutes. It is a fact that we do this to recover the train service for the greater good of everybody and a bi product may be what people think we are setting out to do. Every single person that has a stop they wanted skipped, a train terminated short that they are kicked off of or one that is simply cancelled has every right to feel hard done by and every decision made to do this is not taken lightly.

Cancelling a 12 coach morning peak train has the potential to directly affect 800 peoples day, that's people going to work late, that's people going to medical appointments missed or late, that's job interviews with apologies at the beginning, that's people going home from work late to bed, people going to sports events late, airport check ins getting tighter and tighter and of course some train cranks with something to shout about on their favourite fora when they get in or immediately on tapatalk. Not forgetting the twitteriaty.

So much does the above affect the way we work that I have seen people come into the job who simply cannot make the call as they do not want the
responsibility of making that decision.

This is not a whinge by the way all of the above is exactly why I do my job, I love it, I love the variety and most importantly I do love the days I walk out of the door with 99% PPM and hardly any delay minutes, that's because I am likely to have done very little and everything in the jigsaw puzzle has slotted together nicely. It's when I walk out of the door with 67% PPM that I am peeved, there will be 9000 "minute" incidents and my first instinct is that I let the passengers down and the PPM figure is a consequence of that, not the other way round.
 
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67018

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I absolutely agree. I have worked in CONtrol with the good the bad and the ugly. There are however way to many misconceptions about what "we" do and how we manipulate what we do do fiddle PPM and delay minutes.

"I Wish", is my standard reply.

I tend not to have too much time for that in and amongst the nitty gritty of running a SAFE railway first, then a punctual and fully staffed (Fleet / satations / Crews) amidst all of the infrastructure worries, the passengers and recovery thereof (buses (including the RTAs the become involved in), taxis, connections other operators), the getting the information right (CIS, Websites, media), CCTV monitoring, CCTV profiling, Facebook and of course the ever present Twitter that needs monitoring - oh the weather, trespass, fatals, aircraft with dodgy landing gear.

We do look at PPM (constantly!), we do look at delay minutes as well but the times that we make decisions based "because" of either are remarkably low. Mostly because if we get whatever the problem is sorted as quickly as we can, the PPM will recover quicker. Only on a day where trains are running very reliably with no incidents do we tend to get involved in making tiny tweaks to get trains in on time over another. These tend to be days that are 90% + and when we have time to intervene. It is a misconception that when the service plummets to a horrendous state that we spend all our time looking to deliberately turn trains short, cancel them or skip stops just to improve PPM or save minutes. It is a fact that we do this to recover the train service for the greater good of everybody and a bi product may be what people think we are setting out to do. Every single person that has a stop they wanted skipped, a train terminated short that they are kicked off of or one that is simply cancelled has every right to feel hard done by and every decision made to do this is not taken lightly.

Cancelling a 12 coach morning peak train has the potential to directly affect 800 peoples day, that's people going to work late, that's people going to medical appointments missed or late, that's job interviews with apologies at the beginning, that's people going home from work late to bed, people going to sports events late, airport check ins getting tighter and tighter and of course some train cranks with something to shout about on their favourite fora when they get in or immediately on tapatalk. Not forgetting the twitteriaty.

So much does the above affect the way we work that I have seen people come into the job who simply cannot make the call as they do not want the
responsibility of making that decision.

This is not a whinge by the way all of the above is exactly why I do my job, I love it, I love the variety and most importantly I do love the days I walk out of the door with 99% PPM and hardly any delay minutes, that's because I am likely to have done very little and everything in the jigsaw puzzle has slotted together nicely. It's when I walk out of the door with 67% PPM that I am peeved, there will be 9000 "minute" incidents and my first instinct is that I let the passengers down and the PPM figure is a consequence of that, not the other way round.

Thank you for a great post.

I have to say that I have been impressed on my regular commute by the clever 'tweaks' that get done to help mitigate disruption - juggling the order of trains, extra calls on fast service and the like - on a two track line with a tight timetable and only a few overtaking points. Sites like Realtimetrains now make it easier to see what is going on; it's amazing how disruption can spread all over the place and looking it up is a good way of passing the time while delayed!
 

455driver

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I know i always seem to moan about 'control' but, prior to leaving SWT, I was allowed out on the fast lines between Surbiton (Berrylands jn) and Wimbledon in my 455 so I could overtake a late running up Sheppy, I dont know if it was a control decision or a signaller taking a chance but I always got on with it and knowing where the clearance point was for the signal to take me back onto the slow at Wimbledon (I cant remember the number now :oops:) meant I could minimise the time I was 'in the way' on the up fast line (but still comply with the driving policy) unlike some other drivers who appeared to sh*t themselves and crawl at 20mph from Raynes Park to Wimbledon buggering up the fast trains behind them.

Teamwork is where it is at and although some of my posts are a them and us type it isnt the people I have a problem with but the system that wont allow people to make decisions, the signaller will get it right 9 out of 10 times, they wont get any thanks for those but for the 1 out of 10 they get wrong, oh dear!:roll:
End result is they wont take the chance again (and I dont blame them) and another bit of the railway dies.
 
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